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Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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1

Monday, April 10th 2006, 9:25am

Two questions

Problems & Questions

P1: am working on ideas for fleshing out the Dutch backstory, in particular about the Congo, but this led to questions about WW1. Initial searches turned up rather to many threads…

Q1: SO- is there a consolidated thread on the Wesworld version of WW1, what happened, who fought where, when did it end ?

P2. Light forces: RAM indicated on Dec 1, 2004, that the RNN had 45 FF’s (on 6/24/05 RAM indicates the frigates are aging, on 8/1/05 he refers to them as dedicated ASW and badly outdated ), 15 Minelayers, 20 Minesweepers, Several extra auxiliaries (five colliers, a number of small coastal ASW patrol craft, two troopships, one Royal yacht). I don’t seem to be able to find any SS specs for any of these, or lay down dates. For that matter the two Ijseelmer class PDs have no SS specs.

Q2: My preference is to have designs for these vessels. I presume I should limit “Frigates” to clause G(I)(b) 600-2000ts, <24kts, etc, while the various minelayer/sweeper vessels & yacht would fall under G(II)(a), and the troopships limited to meet G(III)(c) ? Would this seem reasonable ?

2

Monday, April 10th 2006, 2:16pm

This is something I posted a while back and seems to be about as close as you'll get to the WW1 backstory:

Quoted

No, we haven't really examined it in detail. In general terms, I expect it to have gone broadly like historical, substituting Atlantis for the United States. The British Empire would be smaller and not contribute so many troops, but the Germans have to also fight the Nordmarchians in the east, and the Atlanteans are making up the British shortages in theatres like Gallipoli. At sea, the Nordmarchian surface fleet is largely inconsequential, apart from one botched invasion attempt, because the Baltic is dreadnought-unfriendly. Atlantean and South African seapower is significant on paper, but in practice both are likely dealing mainly with submarines and occasional surface raiders. Even in the Med, Atlantis' naval contributions shouldn't change much, and they're only freeing up British and French pre-dreads that aren't going to see action against the High Seas Fleet anyway.

I think it's a mistake to assume that Wesworld's Great War was, however, the "War to end all Wars." Our WW1 included all of the world's major powers in two blocs - UK/Japan, France/Russia, Italy, USA versus Germany, A-H, Ottomans. The war left one bloc in ruins militarily, wiped out Russia for a while, and mainly left the victors to slowly turn on each other.

In Wesworld, we've had two blocs as well - UK/Japan, France/Russia, Nordmark/South Africa, Italy, Atlantis versus the same line-up of Central Powers. But we also had some major powers sit this one out: Iberia and the USA. So while we've got the same squabbling amongst former allies that we had historically, we also have two major powers that saw what happened in the war, didn't suffer much from it, and probably profited in some respects. They don't like each other, and they don't much care for most of the victors of the war either - the USA's neutrality probably meaning that relations with Britain are cooler than historical.

Whereas WW1 left our world with three blocs over time (UK/US/France, Germany/Italy/Japan, USSR), Wesworld's Great War has left us with six. These are the UK, USA, AANM, FAR, SAE/Nordmark, and SATSUMA. Two of these were essentially untouched by the war, two others only moderately affected. Makes sense to me that there will be more conflict and more arms out there, even if the participants of the Great War are exhausted and only hanging in so they don't get thrown from the top of the ladder


It's generally assumed that the war ended at the historical date in Europe but may have lasted in to early 1919 in the Balkans.

In answer to the other question, seems like a reasonable proposition.

Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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3

Monday, April 10th 2006, 4:25pm

Thanks Rock,

That was one of the ones I had found. The additional information of the same terminal date is good to know as I have read indications the war was not as devastating or as nasty.

I'm wondering about details- the time it ended was one, and who fought whom was another, thanks :)
-Was Belgium overrun and the propaganda of the terrible Hun put about?
-Did the British blockade include the Netherlands as historically?
-Did the fighting lock up in trench warfare on the western front?
-Was there the unrestricted submarine warfare?
-Did Wilson make his 14 points speach?
-Was Poland carved out of Germany, AH and Russia as historic ?

4

Monday, April 10th 2006, 4:44pm

My opinion, so it may be overruled later, but....

Quoted

-Was Belgium overrun and the propaganda of the terrible Hun put about?


If the Schlieffen plan was used (and there's little reason to think it wasn't), I'd expect yes and yes.

Quoted

-Did the British blockade include the Netherlands as historically?


Given Dutch neutrality and easy access from Dutch ports to Germany, I'd expect yes.

Quoted

-Did the fighting lock up in trench warfare on the western front?


I'd be shocked if it didn't, so yes.

Quoted

-Was there the unrestricted submarine warfare?


I believe that's the main reason Atlantis and the SAE got involved in the war at all, so probably yes.

Quoted

-Did Wilson make his 14 points speach?


No idea: the US was not in the war, so if he did it would have been an outside voice speaking to the warring nations, though there IS a League of Nations.

Quoted

-Was Poland carved out of Germany, AH and Russia as historic ?


Yes, or approximately so.

5

Monday, April 10th 2006, 5:02pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk

-Was Poland carved out of Germany, AH and Russia as historic ?


What Hrolf sead is right
Allthou poland was carved out of Gemany AH and russia.
However there was no russian/polish war after that,the uprising that historicly happed had wider range,poland is smaller that historicly.

Polish borders were formulised OOC about a Year ago and were retroactivly put in the game.

6

Monday, April 10th 2006, 5:08pm

Zitat:
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-Did Wilson make his 14 points speach?
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Quoted

No idea: the US was not in the war, so if he did it would have been an outside voice speaking to the warring nations, though there IS a League of Nations.


That is an interesting point. I'd also note that the League seems slightly more active and in some cases powerful in Wesworld. Perhaps this has to do with Atlantis and South Africa and nothing to do with the United States. But no 14 points if the US had no troops involved. There also is not clue who the US supported, as there was a balancing act between people that wanted to help Germany as much as those that wanted to help Britian. If the Unrestricted Warfare was more contained to the Eastern and Southern Atlantic due to Atlantis and the SAE, then perhaps they were not as successful in attacking American ships, but the British Blockade managed to stop more US shipping to Europe.


Zitat:
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-Was Poland carved out of Germany, AH and Russia as historic ?
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Quoted

Yes, or approximately so.


Which means the Russians were defeated by Germany (perhaps during a revolution of sorts that put the Tsar out, and Poland was brought out in the aftermath. Lenin did not come to power with his party in full, though they are a party in the Federation, means the after Great War Civil War was reduced or did not happen.) However not as much of Russia was lost to Poland between 1919 and 1922, just a piece to Romania that might have been gained though treaty.

7

Monday, April 10th 2006, 8:10pm

I'd say Atlantis and the SAE were interested in what Wilson had to say which ultimately led to the three nations working to create what morphed into the league of nations.