WesWorld

Converted from a Deutschland-class PD. Since the deck had to be opened up anyway to remove the deck armor and rebuild the superstructure and reroute the stacks, the opportunity was taken to remove the coal-burning boilers and the triple-expansion engines and replace them with much more modern marine diesels.


Otto Lillienthal (ex-Schleswig-Holstein), German Training Carrier laid down 1904 (Engine 1929)

Displacement:
12,283 t light; 12,560 t standard; 13,875 t normal; 14,927 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
413.06 ft / 413.06 ft x 72.83 ft x 26.90 ft (normal load)
125.90 m / 125.90 m x 22.20 m x 8.20 m

Armour:

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 14,935 shp / 11,142 Kw = 18.50 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,366 tons

Complement:
638 - 830

Cost:
£0.494 million / $1.976 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 875 tons, 6.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armour Deck: 801 tons, 5.8 %
- Conning Tower: 73 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 459 tons, 3.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,449 tons, 60.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,592 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,500 tons, 18.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
37,675 lbs / 17,089 Kg = 348.8 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 6.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.38

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.32 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 14.24 ft / 4.34 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 14.24 ft / 4.34 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.24 ft / 4.34 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.24 ft / 4.34 m
- Stern: 14.24 ft / 4.34 m
- Average freeboard: 14.24 ft / 4.34 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 31.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.5 %
Waterplane Area: 22,004 Square feet or 2,044 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 323 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 268 lbs/sq ft or 1,307 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 2.89
- Longitudinal: 5.14
- Overall: 3.06
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Can carry up to 40 aircraft, but normally operates no more than 24.

It might suffice as a training carrier working with just a few aircraft at a time - the flight deck is short (shorter than most CVEs even) and the speed is slow; I suspect you'll need most of the deck to launch an aircraft, leaving little room to parks others.

I'd think it'd be more economical to obtain and convert a larger merchant ship and get better performance, even for a training carrier. Or purpose-build. It isn't a matter of Langley, Hosho, or Furious, where you're doing the first ever experiments on using aircraft off of a ship, you'd have a lot of data from other countries to give a better basis on what's needed, and what's not.

Well if you compair her to HMS Audacity she dosn't look too bad. Length 413 vs 467, and Beam 72 vs. 57. Her flight deck would likely overhang enough to allow some deck parking but given the rules for training carriers you won't need much space anyway.

Personally if I were Germany I'd likely build a newer purpose built ship.

Quoted

It isn't a matter of Langley, Hosho, or Furious, where you're doing the first ever experiments on using aircraft off of a ship, you'd have a lot of data from other countries to give a better basis on what's needed, and what's not.

Not nessassarilly, most carrier nations after the Washington treaty became reluctant to share information in reguards to carrier tech in order to maintain whatever edge they thought they may have.

That being said they certainly provided better designs when the did co-operate such as the P-51 Mustang and Sherman Firefly. It also doesn't mean that nations in Wesworld will be as reluctant to share tech with a select few.

Keep in mind she's going to be used in the 1930s, most likely with biplanes that won't be carrying any weapons, so they need a LOT less of a takeoff run than a higher-performance monoplane from the early 1940s. Yes, she's slow, but she's not allowed to be fast by the training carrier rules being added to the CT.

Germany's looking at doing this sort of thing CHEAPLY, because the Admiralstab has many other things it would like to be doing and right now it's not convinced that CV's are going to be important to it in it's areas of operation. The old pre-dreadnoughts are available for conversion, paid for, and have few backers in the Admiralstab in their current configuration, so....

If Germany's budget for a training carrier was larger, something like this might be built. The transom stern and 4 shaft layout are so the hull can be tested for use on a follow-on real carrier, which will want the extra speed that this design doesn't need.

Fokker, Germany Aircaft Carrier (training) laid down 1930

Displacement:
12,201 t light; 12,475 t standard; 13,669 t normal; 14,624 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
631.27 ft / 623.36 ft x 75.46 ft x 20.34 ft (normal load)
192.41 m / 190.00 m x 23.00 m x 6.20 m

Armour:

- Armour deck: 0.79" / 20 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 15,949 shp / 11,898 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,149 tons

Complement:
631 - 821

Cost:
£2.069 million / $8.275 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 523 tons, 3.8 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armour Deck: 475 tons, 3.5 %
- Conning Tower: 48 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 483 tons, 3.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,195 tons, 74.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,467 tons, 10.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,000 tons, 7.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
101,293 lbs / 45,946 Kg = 2,867.7 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 13.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.26 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.94 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 32 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Stern: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 21.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 290.5 %
Waterplane Area: 32,592 Square feet or 3,028 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 549 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 189 lbs/sq ft or 922 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.82
- Longitudinal: 4.94
- Overall: 2.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

24 aircraft normally embarked.

You might need bulges (or even a single, asymetric bulge) to counterbalance the weight of the island...

She is too short for a carrier, and would need a catapult because of her slow speed. Best thing would probably just be to remove her turrets, not barbettes and build a raised platfrom over them like Akitsu Maru.

He might have something there. The shortest aircraft carrier I can find was just under 500 feet long (482 at the waterline, 500 overall) and this was the freshwater, coal powered, paddle-wheeler, USS Wolverine. The smaller escort carriers were around the same size. The smallest convertion carrier the Americans were planning that I recall (interwar period) was the 502 foot long armored cruisers.

Germany had plans to convert some large liners into carriers at some point. However of your existing naval warships, Helgoland is the best choice as she will age out the soonest of the dreadnoughts, or taking the Prinzregent Luitpold as by 1930 both ships will be over 20 years old (by laid down date). This however will drastically change the battleline, and might allow for Germany to replace said battleships (as they would have been converted to some form of training vessel) where as the pre-dreadnoughts will age out normally.

Converting Helgoland would be a possibility, I hadn't thought about it because of the cost and the fact that losing 1/3 of my current battleline at this point isn't very palatable.

Here's a 87.5% scale model of the previous Fokker design, which has the advantage that it's long enough and it tests out the hullform for a later CVL of similar, if scaled-up, design.


Otto Lillienthal, Germany Aircaft Carrier (training) laid down 1929

Displacement:
8,038 t light; 8,221 t standard; 9,157 t normal; 9,906 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
558.92 ft / 545.44 ft x 66.03 ft x 17.80 ft (normal load)
170.36 m / 166.25 m x 20.13 m x 5.43 m

Armour:

- Armour deck: 0.79" / 20 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 12,668 shp / 9,450 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,685 tons

Complement:
467 - 608

Cost:
£1.343 million / $5.373 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 401 tons, 4.4 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armour Deck: 363 tons, 4.0 %
- Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 389 tons, 4.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,373 tons, 69.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,119 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 875 tons, 9.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
55,883 lbs / 25,348 Kg = 1,582.1 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 8.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.26 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.07 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 35 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.84 ft / 7.88 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.84 ft / 7.88 m
- Mid (50 %): 25.84 ft / 7.88 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 25.84 ft / 7.88 m
- Stern: 25.84 ft / 7.88 m
- Average freeboard: 25.84 ft / 7.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 25.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 263.0 %
Waterplane Area: 24,953 Square feet or 2,318 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 446 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 753 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.69
- Longitudinal: 4.61
- Overall: 1.87
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

24 aircraft normally embarked.