WesWorld

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Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Nations rarely behave this way, even those with a lot of machismo.

...But then again, this is Wesworld.

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I think what he really means is to shadow or "escort" Iberian ships much the way Russian and NATO ships did during the cold war, rather than the point and laugh with guns pointed menacingly tactic. Even so this would be far more risky in the pre WW1 era.

I agree. GC's wife pointed out a while ago, that we all grew up under bomb and that our international relations showed that. I think she ain't that far off the mark.

Iberian ships being shadowed by it's former colonies? Errm, *cough* *splutter* I really can't see that happening, not with a major ally backing them. Remember even in the cold war, only NATO ships did that to Soviet ones. Without the USA and nuclear arms by 3 NATO countries to back them up, that would not have happened. Same goes for the Soviet fishing trawlers that shadowed US carriers.

"Shadow" and "escort"? No, I don't mean that. I mean taunt and jeer. No cold war sneaking just in radar/visual range. I mean right out in the open. No weapons pointing, but verbal/visual abuse.

However I might be thinking of an even earlier time period for this type of behavior...say 1700s rather then 1800s.

Either way....the Iberians didn't come by way of the Horn....so nothing ever happened or came of it.

18th century they were all well under the Iberian Heel (TM) and would have swung for that ....

I'm refering to the behavior in general being from the 1700s, not the colonials doing it in that period. Though they would likely have around 1821, as revolutionaries.

Historically by 1821 the Spanish/Portugese were in real trouble in South America with the Vice Royalty's of New Grenada, Peru and Brazil participating in armed revolt in support of Independance.

Preaty tough to "make em swing" when they are no longer under your heel.

In our alternate history both nations are unified as Iberia but they also have additional powers to deal with such as Atlantis who has also endured a small share of Iberian aggression.

Iberia only has a foot hold in Equador and Panama while Atlantis eventually gains Venezuela which logically means that Atlantis as a growing power, and possibly other nations with a beef against Iberia, would have helped South American Patriots gain independance. Eventually things wind down so that Iberia retains Equador and Panama.

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I agree. GC's wife pointed out a while ago, that we all grew up under bomb and that our international relations showed that. I think she ain't that far off the mark.

Not to hijack the thread, but that's an interesting observation I'd like to see expanded upon sometime.

Please feel free, i'll sit her in front of the laptop and let her vent if you want!

I'd like that. Let 'er rip!

On your head be it!!!!

Dum dum de dum, dum de da da dum da dum!!!

That's me, always getting the blame.

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Preaty tough to "make em swing" when they are no longer under your heel.

errrm, the talk was 18th century. that would be from 1701 to 1800 ...

as Ithekro posted:

However I might be thinking of an even earlier time period for this type of behavior...say 1700s rather then 1800s.

errmmm... the talk was initially about Chiles possible behavior during the Iberian/American war, which is post South American revolution.

true, but then Ithekro corrected himself and that was what my reply was to.

That is also true. I also said they might do something like this during the revolution.

However we also do not think like Chileans in the time period between the revolutions and the Great War. As mentioned elsewhere, the concept of total war was unknown for the most part until the Great War, so such actions would not be totally out of line before 1914. Considering the minor incidents in the area with the British and others, you never know what they really would have done if the Iberians came around the Horn while still having part of their colonial dominion on the continent in the north. With the Spanish off the continent in real life, I cannot tell you what the local thoughts on the spanish might be had they managed to stay for more an extra hundred years. The best bet would be to find a local online and ask them, what do they think their people would have done.

interesting thought. Mind you part of my family is chilean and we are not on speaking terms. the chileans are not very well liked in south america as far as i know. definitely not in Brazil.

Most nations in South and Central America have tenuous relationships. Peruvians don't think highly of Mexicans who don't think highly of Brazilians ect ect.

Quoted

Originally posted by LordArpad
interesting thought. Mind you part of my family is chilean and we are not on speaking terms. the chileans are not very well liked in south america as far as i know. definitely not in Brazil.

That's news to me. We do like to deride Argentinians, though.

From my research into FEH.

1. South American history is very interesting.
2. South America colonies didn't fight for independence, Spain lost them. The colonies were going to run themselves in the name of their deposed King until Napoleon's brother was off the Spanish throne. Spain was too heavy handed when they returned.
3. The church is very powerful.
4. Chile formed the most stable government because it was remote and had the most 'uniform' society.
5. Peru was the seat of Spanish power and the last colony to become independent. Independence came from without (Bolivar from the north and San Martin from the south) not from within - Peru was the most loyal.
6. Argentina was the only part of South America not reconquered by the Spanish.
7. Paraguayans are weird.
8. Numerous resource booms could have bootstrapped economic development and industrialisation - but didn't. That said, South America is almost devoid of coal.
9. Spain tried to reassert itself in South America in the 1860's - see Mendez Nunez - on the pretext that it had never granted Peru independence. After Spain attacked Valparaiso and Calloa(?) the Peruvians were going to attack Spanish ships in Manila with spar torpedoes but the war ended before they could do so.

Cheers,

Interesting. The question would be if the earlier proposed activity be too far out of character for a South American country in 1898? It doesn't have to be Chile, it could also be Argentina.