WesWorld

Greetings all.

GC has asked me to come up with some BB rebuilds to burn excess production tonnage. I first had to convert the CarlosVs to SS2, which resulted in this:

Carlos V, Iberia BB laid down 1911

Displacement:
22,419 t light; 23,639 t standard; 25,345 t normal; 26,710 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
590.55 ft / 583.99 ft x 91.86 ft x 26.25 ft (normal load)
180.00 m / 178.00 m x 28.00 m x 8.00 m

Armament:
8 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,308.20lbs / 593.39kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 6.69" / 170 mm guns in single mounts, 149.90lbs / 67.99kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12,508 lbs / 5,674 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
5 - 18.9" / 480 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 347.77 ft / 106.00 m 11.52 ft / 3.51 m
Ends: 5.91" / 150 mm 236.22 ft / 72.00 m 11.52 ft / 3.51 m
Upper: 7.87" / 200 mm 347.77 ft / 106.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.18" / 30 mm 347.77 ft / 106.00 m 25.03 ft / 7.63 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 8.66" / 220 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - -
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 12.99" / 330 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 41,785 shp / 31,172 Kw = 22.50 kts
Range 11,500nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 3,071 tons)

Complement:
1,003 - 1,305

Cost:
£2.335 million / $9.342 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,564 tons, 6.2 %
Armour: 9,289 tons, 36.6 %
- Belts: 4,048 tons, 16.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 380 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 2,415 tons, 9.5 %
- Armour Deck: 2,204 tons, 8.7 %
- Conning Tower: 242 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,696 tons, 6.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,721 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,926 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,633 lbs / 12,534 Kg = 21.1 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 3.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.630
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.36 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Mid (50 %): 23.62 ft / 7.20 m (14.76 ft / 4.50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 19.27 ft / 5.87 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.4 %
Waterplane Area: 40,347 Square feet or 3,748 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 177 lbs/sq ft or 866 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.42
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Now I am thinking of suggesting this to him:

the warning about the torpedo bulkhead is entirely appropriate as the hull has since come 50 cm out of the water. I have adjusted freeboard and stuff.

GC and everybody, what do you think? Is it plausible?

Carlos V, Iberia BB laid down 1911 (Engine 1926)

Displacement:
24,028 t light; 25,240 t standard; 27,156 t normal; 28,688 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
615.33 ft / 583.99 ft x 91.86 ft (Bulges 104.99 ft) x 24.61 ft (normal load)
187.55 m / 178.00 m x 28.00 m (Bulges 32.00 m) x 7.50 m

Armament:
8 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,308.20lbs / 593.39kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (4x3 guns), 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1921 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
18 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (6x3 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1911 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 11,758 lbs / 5,333 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 347.77 ft / 106.00 m 11.52 ft / 3.51 m
Ends: 5.91" / 150 mm 236.22 ft / 72.00 m 11.52 ft / 3.51 m
Upper: 7.87" / 200 mm 347.77 ft / 106.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.18" / 30 mm 347.77 ft / 106.00 m 25.03 ft / 7.63 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 8.66" / 220 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 2.36" / 60 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 12.99" / 330 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 79,650 shp / 59,419 Kw = 26.00 kts
Range 12,500nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 3,448 tons)

Complement:
1,057 - 1,375

Cost:
£2.392 million / $9.568 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,421 tons, 5.2 %
Armour: 9,285 tons, 34.2 %
- Belts: 4,048 tons, 14.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 380 tons, 1.4 %
- Armament: 2,399 tons, 8.8 %
- Armour Deck: 2,204 tons, 8.1 %
- Conning Tower: 253 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,550 tons, 9.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,622 tons, 39.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,127 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29,594 lbs / 13,423 Kg = 22.6 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 18.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.90

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.630
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.56 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.26 ft / 7.70 m
- Mid (50 %): 25.26 ft / 7.70 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.17 ft / 6.45 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.0 %
Waterplane Area: 40,347 Square feet or 3,748 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 907 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.47
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Warning: Torpedo Bulkhead too tall for hull

Rebuild in 1926/27

replaced new engines and all light artillery.

added torpedo bulges which significantly increased displacement. They also reduced the draught by 50 cm, extending the protection of the belt, which was judged by the admiralty to be submerged a bit too far for comfort, the original design having been somewhat overweight.

replaced ram bow with a modern clipper bow wich came higher to compensate for the higher speed of the ship. High speed only acheivable in calm weather. For this reason these ships have mainly been relegated to the Mediterranean.

I like it. I would have tried to keep at least 1.00 seakeeping at top speed, but for the Med I suppose it's reasonable.

This is the better version for the rebuild I think!


Carlos V, Iberia BB laid down 1911

Displacement:
22,419 t light; 23,639 t standard; 25,345 t normal; 26,710 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
590.55 ft / 583.99 ft x 91.86 ft x 26.25 ft (normal load)
180.00 m / 178.00 m x 28.00 m x 8.00 m

Armament:
8 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,308.20lbs / 593.39kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 6.69" / 170 mm guns in single mounts, 149.90lbs / 67.99kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12,508 lbs / 5,674 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
5 - 18.9" / 480 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 347.77 ft / 106.00 m 11.52 ft / 3.51 m
Ends: 5.91" / 150 mm 236.22 ft / 72.00 m 11.52 ft / 3.51 m
Upper: 7.87" / 200 mm 347.77 ft / 106.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.18" / 30 mm 347.77 ft / 106.00 m 25.03 ft / 7.63 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 8.66" / 220 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - -
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 12.99" / 330 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 41,785 shp / 31,172 Kw = 22.50 kts
Range 11,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,071 tons

Complement:
1,003 - 1,305

Cost:
£2.335 million / $9.342 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,564 tons, 6.2 %
Armour: 9,289 tons, 36.6 %
- Belts: 4,048 tons, 16.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 380 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 2,415 tons, 9.5 %
- Armour Deck: 2,204 tons, 8.7 %
- Conning Tower: 242 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,696 tons, 6.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,721 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,926 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35,323 lbs / 16,022 Kg = 27.0 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.630
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.36 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Mid (50 %): 23.62 ft / 7.20 m (14.76 ft / 4.50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 19.27 ft / 5.87 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.4 %
Waterplane Area: 40,347 Square feet or 3,748 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 177 lbs/sq ft or 866 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.42
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Gets rid of the casemates in addition to the increased speed.

Even if speed is not going to be increased, I'd do a complete rehash of the engines...the weight savings being put into added deck protection.

Point!

But the casemates are on the main deck, not below it. They should be fairly usuable in a seaway. I'd keep them on the design but add a few more AA guns. Might as well add some bulges but the increase in speed isn't really needed. She'll still be a "slow" ship instead of a "fast" ship.

As much as anything else this is an exercise to us up èxcess tonnage. And the ships will be replaced as soon as is legally possible! But I will bear all points raised in mind