WesWorld

Well, during 1928 there will be the usual maneouvers involving the dutch fleet based in the Far East, this time with the intervention of the experimental carrier Hund. The carrier will prove as an excellent asset for reconnaissance and a decent one for strike roles. This will get the thinking heads of the Dutch Navy very interested in getting this kind of ships operative within the fleet.


So...CT says there is a top limit of 60000 tons for dutch CVs available. At the same time a CV smaller than 16000 tons is thought by the design bureaus as not worth the expense. This gives Netherlands two possible paths to follow:


a)

-3x20000 ton carriers of this type:

---------------------------------------------------------------
Karel Doorman, Dutch Aircraft Carrier laid down 1930

Displacement:
19.748 t light; 20.474 t standard; 23.646 t normal; 26.184 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
694,96 ft / 688,98 ft x 88,58 ft x 27,07 ft (normal load)
211,82 m / 210,00 m x 27,00 m x 8,25 m

Armament:
8 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns (4x2 guns), 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1930 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns (8 mounts), 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1930 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
32 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1.139 lbs / 517 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 350

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5,12" / 130 mm 459,65 ft / 140,10 m 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1,57" / 40 mm 459,65 ft / 140,10 m 23,79 ft / 7,25 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3,94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 5,12" / 130 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 135.558 shp / 101.126 Kw = 31,75 kts
Range 15.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5.709 tons

Complement:
953 - 1.239

Cost:
£5,795 million / $23,182 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 142 tons, 0,6 %
Armour: 4.892 tons, 20,7 %
- Belts: 1.145 tons, 4,8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 637 tons, 2,7 %
- Armament: 55 tons, 0,2 %
- Armour Deck: 2.964 tons, 12,5 %
- Conning Tower: 91 tons, 0,4 %
Machinery: 4.108 tons, 17,4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6.905 tons, 29,2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.898 tons, 16,5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3.700 tons, 15,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33.806 lbs / 15.334 Kg = 567,3 x 4,9 " / 125 mm shells or 4,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20
Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
Roll period: 15,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,501
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,98 ft / 6,70 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21,98 ft / 6,70 m
- Mid (50 %): 21,98 ft / 6,70 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21,98 ft / 6,70 m
- Stern: 21,98 ft / 6,70 m
- Average freeboard: 21,98 ft / 6,70 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102,6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 178,8 %
Waterplane Area: 40.701 Square feet or 3.781 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 567 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,97
- Longitudinal: 1,26
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily




Air wing: 60 planes in five squadrons of 12 planes each. Two squadrons of fighters, three of torpedo-bombers, plus capacity for 12 further planes, dissambled in parts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The other path is...

b)

2x22000 ton carriers of this type:



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Karel Doorman, Dutch Aircraft Carrier laid down 1930

Displacement:
21.590 t light; 22.363 t standard; 25.939 t normal; 28.799 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
711,28 ft / 705,38 ft x 88,58 ft x 27,89 ft (normal load)
216,80 m / 215,00 m x 27,00 m x 8,50 m

Armament:
8 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns (4x2 guns), 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1930 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns (8 mounts), 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1930 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
32 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1.139 lbs / 517 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 350

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5,12" / 130 mm 459,32 ft / 140,00 m 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1,57" / 40 mm 459,32 ft / 140,00 m 23,79 ft / 7,25 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3,94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 5,12" / 130 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 129.903 shp / 96.908 Kw = 31,00 kts
Range 16.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6.436 tons

Complement:
1.021 - 1.328

Cost:
£5,965 million / $23,859 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 142 tons, 0,5 %
Armour: 5.028 tons, 19,4 %
- Belts: 1.148 tons, 4,4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 637 tons, 2,5 %
- Armament: 55 tons, 0,2 %
- Armour Deck: 3.091 tons, 11,9 %
- Conning Tower: 97 tons, 0,4 %
Machinery: 3.936 tons, 15,2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.184 tons, 27,7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.348 tons, 16,8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 5.300 tons, 20,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35.547 lbs / 16.124 Kg = 596,5 x 4,9 " / 125 mm shells or 5,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
Metacentric height 5,2 ft / 1,6 m
Roll period: 16,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,22

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,521
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,96 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Mid (50 %): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Stern: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Average freeboard: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168,9 %
Waterplane Area: 42.443 Square feet or 3.943 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 567 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,98
- Longitudinal: 1,14
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Air wing: 72 planes in six squadrons of 12 planes each. Two squadrons of fighters, four of torpedo-bombers, plus capacity for 12 further planes, dissambled in parts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


and 1x16000 carrier of this type:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small Karel Doorman, Dutch Aircraft Carrier laid down 1931

Displacement:
15.665 t light; 16.301 t standard; 19.156 t normal; 21.440 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
678,11 ft / 672,57 ft x 82,02 ft x 25,43 ft (normal load)
206,69 m / 205,00 m x 25,00 m x 7,75 m

Armament:
8 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns (4x2 guns), 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1931 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns (8 mounts), 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1931 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
32 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1.139 lbs / 517 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 350

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5,12" / 130 mm 423,23 ft / 129,00 m 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1,57" / 40 mm 423,23 ft / 129,00 m 23,79 ft / 7,25 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3,94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 5,12" / 130 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100.493 shp / 74.968 Kw = 30,50 kts
Range 15.500nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5.139 tons

Complement:
813 - 1.058

Cost:
£4,750 million / $19,001 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 142 tons, 0,7 %
Armour: 4.404 tons, 23,0 %
- Belts: 1.059 tons, 5,5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 587 tons, 3,1 %
- Armament: 55 tons, 0,3 %
- Armour Deck: 2.625 tons, 13,7 %
- Conning Tower: 79 tons, 0,4 %
Machinery: 3.005 tons, 15,7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.613 tons, 29,3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.492 tons, 18,2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2.500 tons, 13,1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29.230 lbs / 13.258 Kg = 490,5 x 4,9 " / 125 mm shells or 4,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24
Metacentric height 5,5 ft / 1,7 m
Roll period: 14,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,05
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,478
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25,93 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18,37 ft / 5,60 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18,37 ft / 5,60 m
- Mid (50 %): 18,37 ft / 5,60 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18,37 ft / 5,60 m
- Stern: 18,37 ft / 5,60 m
- Average freeboard: 18,37 ft / 5,60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95,9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155,1 %
Waterplane Area: 36.037 Square feet or 3.348 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 136 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 528 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,00
- Longitudinal: 1,05
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Air wing: 48 planes in four squadrons of 12 planes each. One squadron of fighters, three of torpedo-bombers, plus capacity for 12 further planes, dissambled in parts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


Option a) gives the naval air corps capability to take 180 planes to the sea, plus 36 dissambled and ready to make any losses good.


Option b) gives the naval air corps capability to take 192 planes to the sea, plus 36 dissambled and ready to make any losses good, but at the cost of one lesser-capable ship.





I'm stuck and can't decide between those two options so I would like to hear thoughts for and against each option...

Can you give us any insight into how and where the three carriers are going to be used?

Do you prefer a homogenous fleet?

60 planes on 20kts or 48 planes on 16kts isn´t exactly that much by WesWorld standards, right?

Btw, you´re using both single and twin mounts for your 125mm guns on those designs - why?

Option (B) might work if you can squeeze an extra half-a-knot out of the little guy.

Otherwise, I'd go for option (a) - an extra 12 planes won't make much of a difference in the vast majority of situations.

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Can you give us any insight into how and where the three carriers are going to be used?

As for now the carrier fleet is seen as a recce asset for the fleet with an important, but secondary, strike capability.



Hooman:

Quoted

Do you prefer a homogenous fleet?

Yes...but I also like those extra 12 planes... can't really decide between both things.

Quoted

60 planes on 20kts or 48 planes on 16kts isn´t exactly that much by WesWorld standards, right?

I'd rather go for a realistic size/capability relation. Historically the Ark Royal wasn't good for anything larger than 60 planes and it was a 23k ton ship. Granted, she compromised the size of her air wing in exchange for security measures, et all, but still 60 aircraft in a 20k carrier seems really good for me...

48 planes on 16k may seem low, but if I want to keep the third carrier able to keep stations beside the other two (and is a bassic requirement), some sacrifices must be done.

I could go for a smaller weaponry and lighter armor to achieve 60 aircraft...but as you know Dutch fleet always has insisted on staying power over any other consideration. Erasing armor is against the fleet's most sacred belief. Can't see how I could do that without going frontally against the doctrine I set for my navy since I took the place as Netherlands...


The single and double mounts has an explanation. There will be four twin turrets over the deck, two of each fore and aft of the island, with two of them superfiring. Something similar to what was done with the Essex's 5'' battery (or ,IIRC, with Lexington's 8'' one).

The single mounts are all to be mounted in sponsons slightly below the main deck to give them good arcs of fire without danger of damaging the deck with their blast.

I think that of the two cases, the second is more logical. Your doctrine and situation are not dissimilar to India's a few years back: scouting's the initial priority, and you have no experience in building a CV from the keel up. So I see some merit in starting with the 16,000 t ship, then using it as a springboard to build larger ships.

However, can I suggest a third case?

Option C:

2 x 10,000 CV with ~24 A/C
2 x 20,000 CV with ~60 A/C
====================
Total: ~168 A/C

The smaller CVs are built first. They let Dutch yards cut their teeth on purpose-built carriers. Between a reasonable air group and usual Dutch armor schemes, they're not the fastest carriers around. However, the speed is sufficient to work with the battleline or unmodernized battlecruisers.

These vessels work as scouting vessels, can embark a fighter-heavy wing for convoy defence duties across your long sea lanes home, and one (perhaps based in the Netherlands itself) could double as a training carrier.

The larger CV are your strike platforms: fast, well armored, heavy on strike aircraft. They don't waste time escorting convoys through the Indian Ocean or training Dutch pilot-cadets not to Manzo.

Yes, it's less overall capability - but the additional deck gives you more flexibility in how they're used.

Quoted

Originally posted by RAM
The single and double mounts has an explanation. There will be four twin turrets over the deck, two of each fore and aft of the island, with two of them superfiring. Something similar to what was done with the Essex's 5'' battery (or ,IIRC, with Lexington's 8'' one).

The single mounts are all to be mounted in sponsons slightly below the main deck to give them good arcs of fire without danger of damaging the deck with their blast.

You´ve 4x2 on the island - okay. But you have another 10 guns in 8 mounts....?!

Regarding the number of hulls in service - keep an eye on block obsolecence and maintenance if you´re going for realism (which I applaud). So I´d probably go for 4x15kts allowing enough hulls AND a homogenous fleet. 4x48 planes will grand you 192 airframes - not that bad.

Karel Doorman is a mere Lieutenant Commander in 1931. He was promoted to Kapitein-Luitenant ter Zee (= Commander) on February 1, 1933. Doubt he would be important enough and dead enough to have a ship named after him.

Midshipman 1st class August 24, 1910
Lieutenant August 24, 1912
Lieutenant-Commander November 1, 1920
Commander February 1, 1933
Captain September 6, 1937
Rear-Admiral May 16, 1940
(taken from here)

He's famous for his supposed last fleet order "Ik val aan, volg mij!" (I am attacking, follow me), issued to the ships of the Combined Striking Force during the battle of Java sea (1942). I doubt his name would appear on a ship before that. May I suggest "Michiel Adriaenszoon de Ruyter", "Maarten Harpertszoon Tromp" or "Jacob van Heemskerck" or all three of them. Instead of laying down cruisers during the 30s with those names, use them for the carriers.

Well this comes down to a numbers game, or breaking the treaty. Do you want two, three, or four carriers? Can you protect that number of carriers? Do you think two carriers in the Pacific will be enough to detour aggressive actions from those that would want the rubber of the East Indies?

Or do you want to break the treaty and built up to the size you would rather have....or a hybrid Battlecarrier (2 triple 11 inch forward and flight deck for the rest).

Those are some of your options. If the Netherlands feels constrained by the treaty, they can give two years notice, and leave the CT by the middle of 1930.

Quoted

Originally posted by Swamphen
Option (B) might work if you can squeeze an extra half-a-knot out of the little guy.

Otherwise, I'd go for option (a) - an extra 12 planes won't make much of a difference in the vast majority of situations.

It does if both sides have slugged it out in a carrier battle, virtually destroying their airgroups, taking significant damage and one side has 12 torpedo bombers in reserve.

12 planes may not seem like much but sometimes thats all it takes to sink a carrier, even if our current designs are somewhat rudimentary.

... you already have De Ruyter and Tromp as battleships!!
Whoops! So much for that suggestion! :-)
Guess Royalty will be the next logical step then...

Quoted

If the Netherlands feels constrained by the treaty, they can give two years notice, and leave the CT by the middle of 1930

Time to dispel that urban legend. Here's the quote that people keep mis-interpreting:

Quoted

The present Treaty shall remain in force until December 31st, 1936, and in case none of the Contracting Powers shall have given notice two years before that date of its intention to terminate the treaty, it shall continue in force until the expiration of two years from the date on which notice of termination shall be given by one of the Contracting Powers, whereupon the Treaty shall terminate as regards all the Contracting Powers

This does not mean a nation can bail out with two years' notice at any time. It means that unless somebody says otherwise before 31/12/1934, the treaty will keep on chugging until two years after somebody does say otherwise.

Quoted

Do you think two carriers in the Pacific will be enough to detour aggressive actions from those that would want the rubber of the East Indies?

Huh? Who's indicated such interest?

Quoted

Huh? Who's indicated such interest?

Well... you know... the 'other part'...
:-)

Rocky:

the idea of the small carriers is a good one on "getting experience" on building carriers. However the Naval Design Bureau is strongly stuck on not going for small carriers because their very limited usefulness. The Fleet is the one deciding which ships do they want but usually they pay close attention to what the NDB tells them.

The problem of lack of experience in building those kind of ships may be solved by contacting friendly nations who already have built them to give technical assistance while the first ship is built.



Hooman:

as I say the NDB has decided not to go with ships under 16000 tons standard, and the fleet usually gives them the nod if they think the arguments have a good base ,and in this case they do. The NBD has adviced that no small carriers are worth building, and that the absolute low line of carrier displacement should absolutely not be under 16000 tons if said carrier is to have the standards the navy requires. And that said tonnage is already the lowest they will advice to go.


however you have given me an idea. Maybe the NDB and the Fleet reach a compromise with four ships displacing around 16000 tons, publishing them as having slightly less draft than what they really have, and as 15000 tonners.
That is within the 5% "cheat" limit... It would be a breach of the treaty but noone would know about it, as it would be classified info . And I like to be a bit on the cheating side for once .


On the 10 guns in 8 sponsons you're right...that's a mistake, should be 10 guns in 10 mounts .



Walter:


Well, all I knew was that the Dutch CV after WW2 was called Karel Doorman, had no idea on who that gentleman was . And yes, I have two of the three names you suggested taken by battleships...

Ok, any special name of a king for those carriers?. I'm not that documented about XVII and XVIII centuries, when Netherlands was the #1 naval power in the world along the british...I guess that the chosen names should come from those times; kings under which rule the Dutch Navy was one of the most powerful fleets in the world.


Ithekro:


Netherlands really wishes to stay within the CT, if the CT is changed along somewhat more reasonable lines after the 1929 talks. Of course, those changes being accepted by every party attending the negotiations is something which remains to be seen.

But the official (and real) stance of the dutch government is that the CT is needed for world peace and naval force balance along the world's powers. So...Netherlands may twist the treaty a bit (4x16k tonners while declaring 4x15k tonners) but does not want to walk away from it...even if that could be done in the first place

Perhaps borrow from the Americans and name them for famous Dutch victories or warships of the past?

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Perhaps borrow from the Americans and name them for famous Dutch victories or warships of the past?

not a bad idea...not at all

... or rename your battleships.
... wait a sec...
... what names would you have to give them then?
:-)