is this good a good design for a submarine or not

17inc

Unregistered

Sunday, July 6th 2003, 8:56am

is this a good design for long rang submarie or not yes or no guys

AU2 , Australia Long rang submarine laid down 1931

Displacement:
939 t light; 966 t standard; 1,251 t normal; 1,473 t full load
Loading submergence 166 tons/feet

Dimensions:
230.00 ft x 45.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
70.10 m x 13.72 m x 3.05 m

Armament:
1 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns
1 - 0.80" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 32 lbs / 15 kg
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 3,576 shp / 2,668 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 12,600nm at 12.00 kts

Complement:
105 - 136

Cost:
£0.223 million / $0.894 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 107 tons, 8.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 478 tons, 38.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 312 tons, 25.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 28.0 %

Metacentric height 1.8

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.09
Shellfire needed to sink: 1,865 lbs / 846 Kg = 58.3 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.7
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 84 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.01
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.423
Sharpness coefficient: 0.38
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 6.52
'Natural speed' for length: 15.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim: 70
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 81.4 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 105.4 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 210 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.09
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 57 lbs / square foot or 279 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.44
(for 9.99 ft / 3.04 m average freeboard)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.18

and hears my type C Class sub

au type 4c, Australia short rang submarine laid down 1929

Displacement:
388 t light; 400 t standard; 435 t normal; 462 t full load
Loading submergence 55 tons/feet

Dimensions:
120.69 ft x 25.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
36.79 m x 7.62 m x 3.05 m

Armament:
1 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns
1 - 0.80" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 32 lbs / 15 kg
3 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 1,048 shp / 782 Kw = 14.41 kts
Range 2,400nm at 12.00 kts

Complement:
47 - 61

Cost:
£0.086 million / $0.344 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 32 tons, 7.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 252 tons, 57.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 47 tons, 10.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 23.0 %

Metacentric height 0.6

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is cramped
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.00
Shellfire needed to sink: 447 lbs / 203 Kg = 14.0 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.2
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 37 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.07
Relative quality as seaboat: 0.70

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.505
Sharpness coefficient: 0.42
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 4.86
'Natural speed' for length: 10.99 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim: 39
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 98.1 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 62.6 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 221 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.95
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs / square foot or 371 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 10.86
(for 8.09 ft / 2.47 m average freeboard)
Relative composite hull strength: 2.31

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Rooijen10

Mr. Valentines Day

Posts: 9,644

2

Sunday, July 6th 2003, 9:01am

It looks good, but unfortunately different rules apply to submarines.

This is from the springstyle notes:

========================================
Submarines: Spring Style is designed for surface
ships, and isn't really suited to sub sims. (Rolf
Hoffman has created an excellent pencil-and-paper sub
sim rule, which will be added to my website once
formatted.) However, a fairly decent approximate sub
sim can be done using Spring Style:

You will sim your sub in awash condition, just
about to go under. Specify depth as about 2/3 of
beam; this seems typical for subs of pre-nuke era.
Provide "miscelleneous weight" of about 1/4 to 1/6
of normal displacement - this is your ballast tank.
(Some nations' real subs had closer to 1/3, but
this will not sim well.)

For freeboard, enter zero. (To avoid computer
error, the program will adjust this to 0.1 ft
(0.03 metre). You'll get a "horribly cramped"
warning - ignore it. However, if your sub has
stability less than 1.0, you'll have to redesign
it. Always enter steadiness of 50 pct. (If you cheat
to get more stability, whoever re-runs the sim will
catch you!)

Multiply composite hull strength times 100 to
get operational diving depth in feet. (Multiply by
30 for depth in metres.) Emergency diving depth
is 1.6 times operational depth; crush depth is 2.5
times operational depth.

You will find that the smaller the ballast
tank, the deeper your sub can dive. However, the
ballast tank is your reserve bouyancy, and will
determine how much depth-charging you can take
and still make it back up!

Adjust your report file. Just delete all those
warnings about lack of seaworthiness - a dived sub
obviously isn't seaworthy by surface-ship standards.
Specify crew as about half the listed minimum.
Don't forget to list operational diving depth.

========================================

Walter

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Rooijen10

Mr. Valentines Day

Posts: 9,644

3

Sunday, July 6th 2003, 9:12am

Perhaps something like this...

AU2, Australia Long Range Submarine laid down 1931

Displacement:
987 t light; 1,023 t standard; 1,668 t normal; 1,937 t full load
Loading submergence 111 tons/feet

Dimensions:
230.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
70.10 m x 9.14 m x 6.10 m

Armament:
1 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns
1 - 0.79" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 32 lbs / 15 kg
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion engines plus batteries,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 1 shaft, 4,168 shp / 3,110 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 12,600nm at 12.00 kts

Complement:
130 - 169

Cost:
£0.287 million / $1.150 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 125 tons, 7.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 858 tons, 51.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 381 tons, 22.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 18.0 %

Metacentric height 1.0

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is extremely poor

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.09
Shellfire needed to sink: 1,187 lbs / 539 Kg = 37.1 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.5
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 1 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.00
Relative quality as seaboat: 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.423
Sharpness coefficient: 0.33
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 5.93
'Natural speed' for length: 15.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 73.9 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 0.6 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 287 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 3.07
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 131 lbs / square foot or 640 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 3.33
(for 0.10 ft / 0.03 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment -10.48 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 3.09

Operational diving depth: 309 feet
Emergency diving depth: 494 feet
crush depth: 772 feet

Walter

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thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

Posts: 13,513

4

Sunday, July 6th 2003, 10:49pm

cool

I think we should post roojins tip in a special "springstyle tips" forum, that way we can easily pull it up for reference.

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17inc

Unregistered

5

Monday, July 7th 2003, 4:25am

hears try number two

au type 4c, Australia short rang submarine laid down 1929

Displacement:
388 t light; 400 t standard; 444 t normal; 477 t full load
Loading submergence 56 tons/feet

Dimensions:
122.99 ft x 25.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
37.49 m x 7.62 m x 3.05 m

Armament:
1 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns
1 - 0.80" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 32 lbs / 15 kg
3 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors, plus batteries
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 1,047 shp / 781 Kw = 14.41 kts
Range 3,000nm at 12.00 kts

Complement:
48 - 62

Cost:
£0.086 million / $0.344 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 32 tons, 7.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 227 tons, 51.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 55 tons, 12.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 28.2 %

Metacentric height 0.8

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is extremely poor

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.14
Shellfire needed to sink: 215 lbs / 97 Kg = 6.7 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.2
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 0 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.00
Relative quality as seaboat: 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.505
Sharpness coefficient: 0.42
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 4.93
'Natural speed' for length: 11.09 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 105.2 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 0.0 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 200 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 3.15
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs / square foot or 444 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.82
(for 0.00 ft / 0.00 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment -8.12 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 2.90

Operationl diving depth 290 feet
Emergency diving depth 340 feet
Cursh depth 500 feet

AU2 , Australia Long Rang submarine laid down 1931

Displacement:
1,397 t light; 1,436 t standard; 1,819 t normal; 2,117 t full load
Loading submergence 214 tons/feet

Dimensions:
230.00 ft x 45.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
70.10 m x 13.72 m x 3.05 m

Armament:
1 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns
1 - 0.80" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 32 lbs / 15 kg
7 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors, plus batteries,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 5,040 shp / 3,760 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 12,600nm at 12.00 kts

Complement:
130 - 169

Cost:
£0.320 million / $1.281 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 151 tons, 8.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 892 tons, 49.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 422 tons, 23.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 19.2 %

Metacentric height 4.0

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is extremely poor

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.83
Shellfire needed to sink: 1,738 lbs / 788 Kg = 54.3 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.8
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 0 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.00
Relative quality as seaboat: 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.615
Sharpness coefficient: 0.46
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 5.76
'Natural speed' for length: 15.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 70.8 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 0.0 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 266 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 3.05
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs / square foot or 550 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 0.79
(for 0.00 ft / 0.00 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment -10.77 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.10

Operational diving depth 110 feet
Emergency diving depth 240 feet
Crush depth 300