WesWorld

12 gun version.

Edited the design, lengthened the stern, modified the armor scheme to exactly match the North Carolina.

USS South Carolina, United States Battleship laid down 1937

Displacement:
35,938 t light; 37,735 t standard; 39,855 t normal; 41,551 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
777.77 ft / 762.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
237.07 m / 232.26 m x 32.92 m x 9.14 m

Armament:
12 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 6 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17,730 lbs / 8,042 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.5" / 318 mm 416.00 ft / 126.80 m 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 84 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.00" / 76 mm 416.00 ft / 126.80 m 27.84 ft / 8.49 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 9.50" / 241 mm 16.0" / 406 mm
2nd: 2.50" / 64 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 2.50" / 64 mm

- Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 16.00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 114,267 shp / 85,243 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 17,450nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,815 tons

Complement:
1,409 - 1,833

Cost:
£19.434 million / $77.736 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,216 tons, 5.6 %
Armour: 14,238 tons, 35.7 %
- Belts: 2,910 tons, 7.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,286 tons, 3.2 %
- Armament: 4,253 tons, 10.7 %
- Armour Deck: 5,388 tons, 13.5 %
- Conning Tower: 402 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 3,167 tons, 7.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,167 tons, 40.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,917 tons, 9.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
53,243 lbs / 24,151 Kg = 38.8 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 9.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 18.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.565
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.60 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.00 ft / 9.45 m
- Forecastle (19 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 20.55 ft / 6.26 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.2 %
Waterplane Area: 58,248 Square feet or 5,411 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 207 lbs/sq ft or 1,011 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.12
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Main Armor Belt inclined 15'

Why 15"? Remember that, unless there's an extension (doubtful IMHO) these will be post-Treaty ships, so you could go to 16"...or even 18"... :-)

You don't need 15 inch guns. 14 inch 50 cal are very effective still. (besides you already have a working 16 inch design).

That's a typo, it should be 14"!!! No wonder I couldn't get the 16 gun verison under 43,000 tons! The design assumes the treaty is extended. If not...*evil grin*...

I like this one most as it is the most reasonable and balanced to me.

I wonder if D barbet and her inner shafts wouldn´t interfer?

I agree, even if shes armed with either 14,15 or 16" guns, shes the best of the bunch. She does need more room for her shafts though, trunk the funnels into one and bump everything forward.

The 14"/50 isn't a very good gun compared to modern rifles. The RN 14"/45 is a much better weapon, with a shell over 200lb heavier and large burster size.

How do you get 1ft bulges each side?

The Armourscheme is fairly poor on all of these ships. Considering the US's obsession with slow heavily armoured ships, these don't make much sense. Then again, Its your choice.

Quoted

Originally posted by Swamphen
Why 15"? Remember that, unless there's an extension (doubtful IMHO) these will be post-Treaty ships, so you could go to 16"...or even 18"... :-)

Why is the Philippines planning on scuttling the talks, or leaving the CT and building behemuths?

Right now what I have is the 14"/50. I can't use the 16" guns the U.S. designed and built due to the stupidity of the Harding administration negotiating it away at Cleito. One option is to develop an entirely new 15" gun. As for the armor scheme, it is identical in all respects, as of the latest edit, to the North Carolina.

Quoted

Why is the Philippines planning on scuttling the talks, or leaving the CT and building behemoths?

No, and not yet. :-) But a little bird told me that other countries might be considering the latter. ^_^

Quoted

No, and not yet. :-) But a little bird told me that other countries might be considering the latter. ^_^

I suspect because they have some outlandish suggestions to make for the treaty they know won't fly! ;-)

Disappointing, and exciting at the same time, I'm truely curious just how crazybusy I can make my infrastructure roll out ships, still it would be nice to keep the treaty in place for at least another 7/8 years sim time.

Stick with the 14 inch, just develop a super heavy type, maybe a longer barrel. Or keep working on the 16 inch in private.

Quoted

Or keep working on the 16 inch in private.

Yes. Remember: as long as you don't mount it on a ship, your're not violating the treaty. Nothing in the treaty that says you may not build build guns with a caliber larger than 15 inch...
... but perhaps that might be changed during the next talks.

Quoted

Yes. Remember: as long as you don't mount it on a ship, your're not violating the treaty. Nothing in the treaty that says you may not build build guns with a caliber larger than 15 inch...

Indeed, Russia has build 8 420mm/53 for coast defense installations. Having a bigger gun on land (where gun steadiness is always 1.00) than can legally be put to sea keeps opposing battleships away from that land.

As for the battleships, they've got good speed and formidable firepower, but if you stick to 14" guns, a new design with a heavier shell is definitely in order. there's no reason a powerful industrial nation like the US should put a WWI-era gun design on a 1937 battleship.

Well if we go with what the Americans did build (for London Treaty limits) these new ships might be armed with the 14"/50 Mark 11 (or the proposed "B" type that was never finished because the Washington Treaty collapsed and the 16" was used instead of quad 14" turrets). These are still quite powerful and reliable weapons from what I've read, though if the option is there the Americans will go for the 16"/45 and 50 cal weapons.

I don't have any info on the Type B, but that is what any late 30's 14" ships would use. I'll have to dig through Friedman's and see if there is anything in there about the gun. Now, if the treaty did fail, I've got my 16" guns to fall back on, plus work on an 18" had started by 1920. Building a 15" gun would be nice, but not terribly realistic from a political point of view. The 14" is seen as "good enough" for now and can be upgraded as was done in the 1930's. Also, if the treaty lapses by the late 1930's, when the US plans to start replacing the bulk of its battleline, then I can just go with the 16" or 18", which would leave the 15" as a waste of money.

Quoted

plus work on an 18" had started by 1920

Wow... Japan hasn't even started any research on a gun bigger than 410mm. Considered to be a waste of money (for the time being) with the treaty maximum being 15 inch...

I'm talking historically. Checking Friedman's book, work on the 18" had started in 1916 and ended with the Washington Treaty. The gun was completed as a 16"/56. Srudies of blast effects lead to the belief that it could not be installed in triple turrets. As for Wesworld, I'm assuming that the something similar happened. Perhaps the 18" was completed as a prototype coast defense gun and given to the Army.

The early 16 inch 45 and 50 calibers however would be quite complete by 1920.

Probably preaching to the choir, but oh well;

http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_main.htm
http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_18-48_mk1.htm