WesWorld

Does she work????

A Class, Iberia Submarine (Coastal) laid down 1927

Displacement:
438 t light; 450 t standard; 518 t normal; 572 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
164.04 ft / 164.04 ft x 22.97 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
50.00 m / 50.00 m x 7.00 m x 4.88 m

Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
4 - 0.49" / 12.5 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 31 lbs / 14 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
7 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 1,419 shp / 1,059 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 122 tons

Complement:
53 - 70

Cost:
£0.090 million / $0.361 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 45 tons, 8.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 289 tons, 55.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 80 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 19.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
49 lbs / 22 Kg = 1.6 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 12.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 12 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.301
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m (1.64 ft / 0.50 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m (1.64 ft / 0.50 m before break)
- Stern: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 1.07 ft / 0.33 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 253.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 14.2 %
Waterplane Area: 2,416 Square feet or 224 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 235 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 77 lbs/sq ft or 378 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 2.18
- Longitudinal: 5.14
- Overall: 2.38
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is extremely poor
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Diving depth = 238'
Emergency dive = 380'
Crush depth = 619'

That block co-efficient is pretty low...

I also think that 253% is perhaps a bit too over-crowded, but that's just me.

The BC is too low. A cylinder with hemispherical ends, i.e. the right sort of shape for a sub, has a BC of c. 0.5

Submarnines of this time period were more destroyer shaped like the German U-boats and even up until U.S.S. Nautilus. Not like todays submarines.

She probably just doesn't weigh enough.

I'm trying to keep her in the "Coastal" catagory, hence the low weight

How's this one?

A Class (b), Iberia Submarine (Coastal) laid down 1927

Displacement:
439 t light; 450 t standard; 489 t normal; 520 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
164.04 ft / 164.04 ft x 16.40 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)
50.00 m / 50.00 m x 5.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
4 - 0.49" / 12.5 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1927 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 31 lbs / 14 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
5 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 832 shp / 621 Kw = 14.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 70 tons

Complement:
51 - 67

Cost:
£0.081 million / $0.324 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 26 tons, 5.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 308 tons, 63.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 50 tons, 10.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 20.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
62 lbs / 28 Kg = 2.0 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 8 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.485
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m (1.64 ft / 0.50 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m (1.64 ft / 0.50 m before break)
- Stern: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 1.07 ft / 0.33 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 212.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 10.8 %
Waterplane Area: 1,768 Square feet or 164 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 267 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 476 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 3.59
- Longitudinal: 4.01
- Overall: 3.63
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is extremely poor
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Diving depth = 363'
Emergency dive = 580'
Crush depth = 943'

Uh oh...I believe the trim is supposed to be kept at 50% for sub sims. Which you appear to need to get stability of 1.00.

The armament seems more appropriate for a coastal boat, though.

If it helps, check out my I-2 and I-9 class boats, which are generally similar to what you're after...

Yes. No cheating there! :-)

Next try, I think i'm getting there!!

A Class (c), Iberia Submarine (Coastal) laid down 1927

Displacement:
438 t light; 450 t standard; 488 t normal; 519 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
164.48 ft / 164.04 ft x 15.58 ft (Bulges 18.86 ft) x 12.47 ft (normal load)
50.13 m / 50.00 m x 4.75 m (Bulges 5.75 m) x 3.80 m

Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
4 - 0.49" / 12.5 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1927 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 31 lbs / 14 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
5 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 821 shp / 612 Kw = 14.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 69 tons

Complement:
51 - 67

Cost:
£0.081 million / $0.323 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 26 tons, 5.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 309 tons, 63.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 50 tons, 10.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 20.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
131 lbs / 60 Kg = 4.3 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 15 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.09

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.443
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.70 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m (1.64 ft / 0.50 m before break)
- Stern: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 1.39 ft / 0.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 145.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 9.9 %
Waterplane Area: 1,621 Square feet or 151 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 267 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 487 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 3.50
- Longitudinal: 3.84
- Overall: 3.53
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Diving depth = 357'
Emergency dive = 571'
Crush depth = 928'

Last design.....YES - NO - MAYBE???????

Looks fine to me, but I'm no expert on Submarnines or using SS for submarine designs. (otherwise I'd be trying to pull a submersible aircraft carrier out here).

Quoted

(otherwise I'd be trying to pull a submersible aircraft carrier out here).

*slips plans for fearsome Battlesub under the table*

You hear something?

Sounds like a city-sized aircraft carrier slipping under the waves under its own power.....

You guys must be hearing things. :-)
I'm no expert either, but the sub looks good... though I would slighly alter it so the staibility is a little bit higher if it were to be used for the Imperial Japanese Navy...

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore Green
Last design.....YES - NO - MAYBE???????

Well how does she fair against her closest neighbours recent design?

R-62 class sub, Atlantis Coastal submarine laid down 1925

Displacement:
410 t light; 421 t standard; 438 t normal; 451 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
135.01 ft / 135.00 ft x 15.00 ft (Bulges 22.00 ft) x 12.00 ft (normal load)
41.15 m / 41.15 m x 4.57 m (Bulges 6.71 m) x 3.66 m

Armament:
2 - 2.95" / 74.9 mm guns in single mounts, 12.84lbs / 5.82kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread
2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mount
on centreline
Weight of broadside 27 lbs / 12 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
3 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 1,102 shp / 822 Kw = 15.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 6.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 31 tons

Complement:
47 - 62

Cost:
£0.072 million / $0.290 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 36 tons, 8.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 291 tons, 66.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 28 tons, 6.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 18.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
261 lbs / 118 Kg = 20.3 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 0.4 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 1 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.430
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0.10 ft / 0.03 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 0.10 ft / 0.03 m
- Mid (0 %): 0.10 ft / 0.03 m
- Quarterdeck (55 %): 0.10 ft / 0.03 m
- Stern: 0.10 ft / 0.03 m
- Average freeboard: 0.10 ft / 0.03 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0.5 %
Waterplane Area: 1,272 Square feet or 118 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 246 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 596 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 4.25
- Longitudinal: 4.53
- Overall: 4.28
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform

operational diving depth: 428 feet
Emergency diving depth: 684 feet
Crush depth: 1070 feet

Yep, I think she'a a builder!!
Thanks guys!

Now, make sure to tie plenty of empty beer cans to the conning tower railings so my destroyers can hear her miles away!

Quoted

empty beer cans

Empty? Empty?!?! That's an outrage! If the crew finds out that those cans are empty, then you'll have a mutiny on your hands!!
:-)

Acctually the empty's are a "wall of shame" of sorts, shows how many beers went to malt heaven...

Preferably the crew would drink them, then tie them to the railings. Then my destroyers will be tracking a noisy sub with a drunken crew! }