WesWorld

France will lay down a new class of coastal submarines, and will purchase and refit 2 oil tankers.

The France class battleships, and the Duquesene class heavy cruisers will be completed.

Coastal Submarine, laid down 1927

Length, 45.5 m x Beam, 6.0 m x Depth, 3.9 m
508 tonnes normal displacement (448 tonnes standard)

Main battery: 1 x 7.5-cm
Secondary battery: 1 x 4.0-cm

Weight of broadside: 7 kg

4 TT, 53.3 cm (submerged)

Hull unarmored

Operational Depth: 388ft/118m
Emergency Depth: 621ft/189m
Crush Depth: 970ft/296m

Maximum speed for 365 shaft kw = 12.00 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 6500 nm / 10 knots

Typical complement: 27-35


Estimated cost, $276,000 (£69,000)

Remarks:

Caution: lacks seaworthiness -- very limited seakeeping ability.

Caution: Very cramped ship with excessively poor habitability;
lacks suitable working space.

Ship has quick, 'lively' roll; not a steady gun platform.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 2 tonnes = 0 pct
Machinery ........................ 15 tonnes = 3 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 309 tonnes = 61 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 72 tonnes = 14 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 110 tonnes = 22 pct
-----
508 tonnes = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 0.1 m

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 436 tonnes
Standard displacement: 448 tonnes
Normal service: 508 tonnes
Full load: 555 tonnes

Loading submergence 166 tonnes/metre

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.04

Shellfire needed to sink: 125 kg = 21.3 x 7.5-cm shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.1
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 1 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.00

Relative quality as a seaboat: 0.00

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.47
Sharpness coefficient: 0.35
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 5.71
'Natural speed' for length = 12.2 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 42 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 95 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 1 percent


Displacement factor: 327 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 3.88
(Structure weight per square
metre of hull surface: 526 kg)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 3.89
(for 0.03 m average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment -2.51 m)

Relative composite hull strength: 3.88

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

149.24 x 19.68 x 12.89; 0.10 -- Dimensions
0.47 -- Block coefficient
1927 -- Year laid down
12.00 / 6500 / 10.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
110 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
1 x 2.95; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
:
1 x 1.57; 0 -- Secondary battery; turrets
:
0 -- No tertiary (QF/AA) battery
0 -- No fourth (light) battery
4 / 4 / 20.98 -- TT / submerged / size
++++++++++
0.00 -- No belt armor
0.00 / 0.00 -- Deck / CT
0.00 -- No battery armor


(Note: For portability, values are stored in Anglo-American units)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


French Tanker laid down 1925

Displacement:
14,994 t light; 15,343 t standard; 17,216 t normal; 18,714 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
533.14 ft / 533.14 ft x 82.02 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
162.50 m / 162.50 m x 25.00 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline forward
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 41 lbs / 19 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 22,467 shp / 16,760 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 16,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 3,371 tons)

Complement:
750 - 976

Cost:
£2.066 million / $8.264 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 729 tons, 4.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,260 tons, 24.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,222 tons, 12.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 10,000 tons, 58.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,872 lbs / 10,374 Kg = 1,776.8 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.52

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.700
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.09 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 33
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.93 ft / 5.16 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.0 %
Waterplane Area: 35,049 Square feet or 3,256 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 150 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 459 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 0.99
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

France will also begin reconstructing 9 of the 12 Aventurieur class destroyers, lengthening them by 5 meters, adding a transom stern, giving them greater range and speed, and a main armament of 120mm guns.

Aventurieur class, French Destroyer laid down 1911 (Engine 1927)

Displacement:
941 t light; 982 t standard; 1,098 t normal; 1,191 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
290.62 ft / 278.87 ft x 26.25 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)
88.58 m / 85.00 m x 8.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:
3 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 61.73lbs / 28.00kg shells, 1927 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (1x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1927 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1927 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 209 lbs / 95 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
4 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes
20 tons depth charges

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

- Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 27,605 shp / 20,594 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 5,600nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 209 tons)

Complement:
94 - 123

Cost:
£0.130 million / $0.519 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 23 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 11 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 9 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 555 tons, 50.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 332 tons, 30.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 157 tons, 14.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
276 lbs / 125 Kg = 5.2 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.22 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.51 ft / 2.90 m
- Stern: 9.51 ft / 2.90 m
- Average freeboard: 13.33 ft / 4.06 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.6 %
Waterplane Area: 4,676 Square feet or 434 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 56 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 144 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 3.63
- Overall: 0.61
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform



These are her original statistics:

French Aventurieur class destroyers, laid down 1911
Length, 80.0 m x Beam, 8.0 m x Depth, 4.0 m
1032 tonnes normal displacement (968 tonnes standard)
Main battery: 4 x 10.0-cm
Secondary battery: 4 x 6.5-cm
QF battery: 2 x 4.5-cm
Light battery: 6 x 1.3-cm
Weight of broadside: 73 kg
4 TT, 45.0 cm
80 tons depth charges/mines
Hull unarmored
Maximum speed for 20568 shaft kw = 31.50 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 3000 nm / 10 knots
Typical complement: 91-118

Estimated cost, $511,000 (£128,000)
Remarks:
Caution: Hull structure is subject to strain in open-sea
conditions.
Oil firing.
Magazines and engineering spaces are cramped, with poor
watertight subdivision.
Cramped ship; poor crew accommodation, limited working space.

Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:
Armament ......................... 20 tonnes = 2 pct
Machinery ........................ 558 tonnes = 54 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 275 tonnes = 27 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 99 tonnes = 10 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 80 tonnes = 8 pct
-----
1032 tonnes = 100 pct
Estimated metacentric height, 0.3 m
Displacement summary:
Light ship: 934 tonnes
Standard displacement: 968 tonnes
Normal service: 1032 tonnes
Full load: 1080 tonnes
Loading submergence 349 tonnes/metre
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.15
Shellfire needed to sink: 90 kg = 6.5 x 10.0-cm shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.2
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform, 55 percent
(50 percent is 'average')
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.36
Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.10
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.40
Sharpness coefficient: 0.30
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 7.93
'Natural speed' for length = 16.2 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 71 percent

Estimated hull characteristics and strength:
Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 198 percent
Relative accommodation and working space: 78 percent

Displacement factor: 42 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)

Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.50
(Structure weight per square
metre of hull surface: 154 kg)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.27
(for 4.25 m average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +1.32 m)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.58
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]
262.40 x 26.24 x 13.12; 13.94 -- Dimensions
0.40 -- Block coefficient
1911 -- Year laid down
31.50 / 3000 / 10.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
80 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
4 x 3.94; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
:
4 x 2.56; 0 -- Secondary battery; turrets
:
2 x 1.77 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
:
6 x 0.51 -- Fourth (light) battery
4 / 0 / 17.72 -- TT / submerged / size
++++++++++
0.00 -- No belt armor
0.00 / 0.00 -- Deck / CT
0.00 -- No battery armor

(Note: For portability, values are stored in Anglo-American units)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

How can you increase length whilst adding a transom stern?

To add a transom stern, you need to physically cut a portion off the stern. From an engineering point of view I can tell you that it is more or less impossible with metal hulled ships.

Nobody tended to rebuild their destroyers to such an extent anyway.

It´s not a rebuild, it´s a reconstruction as he´s changing their general hull form.

Even reconstructed it would be more or less impossible to change the hull form so much.

Regarding the tankers. Are these built to navy standard (laid down 1927) at 100% light tonnage or are you refitting (25% cost) a 20's era civilian tanker? I ask because Greece is also refitting two tankers for 1927 and I was wondering where I can find 4 shaft 20knt diesel electric ships off the shelf.

I'm puzzled over tankers. A GRT 10000 tanker is about 15000tons standard and full load 17000tons. I don't have a light tonnage figure and was going to assume 10000tons as the closest.

Anyone have an idea what to do?


Cheers,

Quoted

Anyone have an idea what to do?

Drink coffee and say a wizard did it?

Chile must sure import a hell of a lot of coffee!

They just nip across the border and pinch it from the Brazilians and Colombians!!!!

Quoted

I ask because Greece is also refitting two tankers for 1927 and I was wondering where I can find 4 shaft 20knt diesel electric ships off the shelf.

That's what I get for designing the submarine first. Its fixed. And yes, they're being refitted to Navy standard. I've changed the date the keel was laid too.

Quoted

Even reconstructed it would be more or less impossible to change the hull form so much.

Absolutely agree - This would require replacing 1/3rd or more of the hull

Ian

www.springsharp.com