WesWorld

Or, what I intend to do with the freighters mentioned in the Q4 news... :-)

------------

Baseline:

P&PSSCo Gordita-class freighter, laid down 1926

Displacement:
8,054 t light; 8,307 t standard; 9,878 t normal; 11,135 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
489.28 ft / 482.28 ft x 60.70 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
149.13 m / 147.00 m x 18.50 m x 6.00 m

Armour:
- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,805 shp / 5,077 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 20,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,828 tons)

Complement:
495 - 644

Cost:
£1.231 million / $4.926 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 20 tons, 0.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 218 tons, 2.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,230 tons, 32.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,824 tons, 18.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4,586 tons, 46.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,874 lbs / 7,200 Kg = 236.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 47 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.55

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 31 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 29
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 15.99 ft / 4.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 61.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.7 %
Waterplane Area: 21,409 Square feet or 1,989 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 183 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 501 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.25
- Longitudinal: 1.50
- Overall: 1.28
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Filipino Chorlito-class destroyer tender, laid down 1926 (refit to AD 1932)

Displacement:
8,054 t light; 8,307 t standard; 9,878 t normal; 11,135 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
489.28 ft / 482.28 ft x 60.70 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
149.13 m / 147.00 m x 18.50 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 70.00lbs / 31.75kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 13.00lbs / 5.90kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
6 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (2x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1932 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 436 lbs / 198 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,805 shp / 5,077 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 20,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,828 tons)

Complement:
495 - 644

Cost:
£1.231 million / $4.926 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 52 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 54 tons, 0.5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 34 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 218 tons, 2.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,230 tons, 32.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,824 tons, 18.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4,500 tons, 45.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,874 lbs / 7,200 Kg = 236.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 47 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.55

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 31 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 29
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 15.99 ft / 4.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 61.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.7 %
Waterplane Area: 21,409 Square feet or 1,989 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 183 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 501 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.25
- Longitudinal: 1.50
- Overall: 1.28
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

PRS Soccsksargen, Filipino subtender, laid down 1926 (refit to AS 1933)

Displacement:
8,071 t light; 8,307 t standard; 9,878 t normal; 11,135 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
489.28 ft / 482.28 ft x 60.70 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
149.13 m / 147.00 m x 18.50 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (2x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1933 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 13.00lbs / 5.90kg shells, 1933 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
6 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (2x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1933 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 284 lbs / 129 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,805 shp / 5,077 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 20,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,828 tons)

Complement:
495 - 644

Cost:
£1.180 million / $4.722 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 34 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 44 tons, 0.4 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 24 tons, 0.2 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 218 tons, 2.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,275 tons, 33.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,807 tons, 18.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4,500 tons, 45.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,266 lbs / 7,378 Kg = 533.1 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 47 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.55

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 31 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 29
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 15.99 ft / 4.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.7 %
Waterplane Area: 21,409 Square feet or 1,989 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 188 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 104 lbs/sq ft or 508 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.30
- Longitudinal: 1.53
- Overall: 1.32
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

That´s quite a lot of guns and armor for a tender....

Why not build them as tenders from the start?

...because purpose built tenders would cost X ammount of tonnage right from laying the keel down. Converting a Freighter conforms to the usual practice of the Philippines finding loopholes in the treaty (ie no cost for a player to "buy" a frieghter) and explioting them with their "endless" supply of money to convert 3 frieghters for the cost of 1 purpose built tender.

Quoted

their "endless" supply of money

Filipino In Black (FIB): "Could you come this way, sir? We have a few questions..." :-)

Actually I'm now musing on not converting any of these (really, what's the need? Any 'overseas' deployments of Filipino forces will be done a la SATSUMA and both Japan and India have tenders already...), and using that tonnage torwards infrastructure, or 'proper' warships.

You are , of course, assuming that the other two don't chuck you out on your ear for being, how shall I put it......slightly UN-diplomatic and a little MOUTHY!

Build them, you may need them after all!

Yeah, a fleet definitively needs tenders, lots of them, even without oversea territories (see Germany in WW2).

Part of my Q1 News will include the debates over the 1928-1932 Military Expansion Plan...the Treasury Minister will not be pleased. ^_^

I might wind up converting one DT (instead of two) and having my planned (new-build) seaplane carrier double as a subtender...


Rationale for the guns is that, the ships are already carrying 130mm (or 100mm) and 75mm ammo for the ships they're tending, so why not be able to shoot it? :-)

A tender can only service so many vessels. It's not unreasonable to assume that India's two units will be quite busy just dealing with Indian vessels.

While in the USN back in the dark ages I served aboard a Destroyer Tender (AD) and worked around tenders of various types. The AD was 492' in length and was armed with 2-5"/38 mounts. Larger tenders had up to 4-5"/38 mounts with directors.
So armed tenders aren't unusual.
We could handle about 3-4 destroyers alongside at any one time plus assisting other ships on the same pier.

John,

thanks for your input.

Often crews of small combatants also lived on tenders while in harbor. Was this also the case on the tender you served on?

In the case of the AD rarely did crews have to move 'off ship' for their level of maintenance. There were barracks ships and housing within most bases for this function.
During Vietnam, tenders for the Riverine warfare craft were created out of older LST's. They retained most of the original WW-2 battery of 40mm guns (useful in the habors) and had the tank deck converted to workshops.
River warfare crews generally lived in another group of LST conversions into mobile barracks ships.
Tenders were an easy way to save shipyard time for minor repairs. But by the 80's most repair work on all classes of ships had reached such a level of complexity that it had to be done on shore facilities so the tenders were all decommissioned.
The USN had many, many tenders & repair ships in commission during WW-2 when they were operating in many new areas.
Tenders are valuable if you base your ships in harbors without navy shipyard faciliities. Depending on how your instructure is developed a tender in some areas could be a duplication of effort.
Also, tenders are high value targets with limited self defense. (Even an AD might have a number of DD's along side they may not be able to contribute to the defence effort due to their own material condition)

Indeed, loosing a well equiped tender is always a bad thing.

Your story reminds me of the tenders and repair ships the Germans used in Norway. Without such units the fleet in being would never had been possible.

John - That's quite interesting. Thanks for the info.


Here's how the Filipino Tender Procurement will probably turn out:

MdF Admiralty requests two ADs and one AS as freighter conversions.

Filipino Parliment cuts all tenders from budget - "not needed".

Tensions rachet up.

MdF builds one AD from scratch. Tells Minister of the Treasury, who cut tender-conversions: "this is gonna cost ya". :-)