New German destroyer for 1926

Old-School Heel

Tuesday, January 25th 2005, 2:31am

This is a slight upgrade of the Z-203 design from 1924. The 88 mm gun has been removed, and replaced with a bit more speed and four 3.7 cm guns.

Three units will be laid down, replacing the last of the pre-1918 torpedo-boats currently in service.

Z212, laid down 1926

Length, 106.7 m x Beam, 10.7 m x Depth, 3.6 m
1679 tonnes normal displacement (1551 tonnes standard)

Main battery: 4 x 13.0-cm
Secondary battery: 4 x 3.7-cm
AA battery: 4 x 2.0-cm

Weight of broadside: 125 kg

8 TT, 50.0 cm

Hull unarmored

Battery armor:
Main, 5.0 cm shields / secondary, 2.5 cm shields

Maximum speed for 32020 shaft kw = 33.81 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 4500 nm / 12 knots

Typical complement: 131-170

Estimated cost, $2.907 million (£727,000)

Remarks:

Caution: Hull structure is subject to strain in open-sea
conditions.

Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform.

Magazines and engineering spaces are cramped, with poor
watertight subdivision.

Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 34 tonnes = 2 pct
Armor, total ..................... 15 tonnes = 1 pct

Armament 15 tonnes = 1 pct

Machinery ........................ 922 tonnes = 55 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 503 tonnes = 30 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 184 tonnes = 11 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 20 tonnes = 1 pct
-----
1679 tonnes = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 0.5 m

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 1495 tonnes
Standard displacement: 1551 tonnes
Normal service: 1679 tonnes
Full load: 1774 tonnes

Loading submergence 632 tonnes/metre

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.24

Shellfire needed to sink: 180 kg = 5.9 x 13.0-cm shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.3
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 71 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.25

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.05

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.41
Sharpness coefficient: 0.30
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 9.00
'Natural speed' for length = 18.7 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 68 percent

Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 194 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 93 percent

Displacement factor: 55 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)

Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.51
(Structure weight per square
metre of hull surface: 186 kg)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.43
(for 4.80 m average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +1.57 m)

Relative composite hull strength: 0.57

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

350.00 x 35.00 x 11.70; 15.74 -- Dimensions
0.41 -- Block coefficient
1926 -- Year laid down
33.81 / 4500 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
20 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
4 x 5.12; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
Gun-shields
:
4 x 1.46; 0 -- Secondary battery; turrets
Gun-shields
:
4 x 0.79 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
:
0 -- No fourth (light) battery
8 / 0 / 19.69 -- TT / submerged / size
++++++++++
0.00 -- No belt armor
0.00 / 0.00 -- Deck / CT
1.97 / 0.98 / 0.00 / 0.00 -- Battery armor

(Note: For portability, values are stored in Anglo-American units)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Go to the top of the page

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

Posts: 7,417

2

Tuesday, January 25th 2005, 9:19am

She´s a good design, probably too slow but that´s a well-known problem - especially without springsharp (transome sterns).

Have you tried putting those superfiring guns closer to the superstructure fore and aft? Just move the guns a little bit, not the deck below. Otherwise the blast shields to protect the crews of the lower guns don´t make much sense.

Her bridge structure is rather long for a (German) DD but nevertheless gives her a powerful look. Kind like a leader with flag facilities.

I would probably also extend the funnels at their basement. The machinery used two boilers per turbine I assume and so the fume outlets have to join somewhere. But that´s not a must have, just an idea.

Have you tried what it looks like if you´re adding supporting bars to her masts (kinda light tripod)?

Anyway, good ship.

Regards,

HoOmAn

Go to the top of the page

Kaiser

Unregistered

3

Sunday, January 30th 2005, 4:20am

Keeping as much as possible to a continuity of design, this is what I got for an evolution of the basic design through 1927 & 1928.

_____________________________________________

DD 1927, German DD Fleet Destroyer laid down 1927

Displacement:
1,528 t light; 1,586 t standard; 1,700 t normal; 1,792 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
362.48 ft / 350.07 ft x 35.10 ft x 11.81 ft (normal load)
110.48 m / 106.70 m x 10.70 m x 3.60 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1927 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1927 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1927 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 275 lbs / 125 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 39,005 shp / 29,098 Kw = 34.50 kts
Range 4,200nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 207 tons

Complement:
132 - 172

Cost:
£0.752 million / $3.009 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 34 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 23 tons, 1.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 23 tons, 1.3 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 889 tons, 52.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 557 tons, 32.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 172 tons, 10.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
448 lbs / 203 Kg = 6.7 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.410
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.61 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.50 ft / 6.55 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (15.50 ft / 4.72 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Stern: 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Average freeboard: 17.87 ft / 5.45 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 185.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.5 %
Waterplane Area: 7,899 Square feet or 734 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 156 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.41
- Longitudinal: 3.00
- Overall: 0.50
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

_______________________________________________

DD 1928, German DD Fleet Destroyer laid down 1928

Displacement:
1,522 t light; 1,579 t standard; 1,700 t normal; 1,797 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
362.48 ft / 350.07 ft x 35.10 ft x 11.81 ft (normal load)
110.48 m / 106.70 m x 10.70 m x 3.60 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1928 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.54lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 276 lbs / 125 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 39,005 shp / 29,098 Kw = 34.50 kts
Range 4,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 218 tons

Complement:
132 - 172

Cost:
£0.786 million / $3.145 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 35 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 23 tons, 1.4 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 23 tons, 1.4 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 884 tons, 52.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 555 tons, 32.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 179 tons, 10.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
451 lbs / 205 Kg = 6.7 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.410
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.61 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.50 ft / 6.55 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (15.50 ft / 4.72 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Stern: 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Average freeboard: 17.87 ft / 5.45 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.5 %
Waterplane Area: 7,899 Square feet or 734 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 62 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 155 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.41
- Longitudinal: 2.99
- Overall: 0.50
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Go to the top of the page

Swamphen

Mr. Dynamite

Posts: 4,191

4

Sunday, January 30th 2005, 4:24am

Cross-sectional Alert!

Quoted

Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.41

Uh-oh...

Here's my take on a 1931 version of the design. :-) The twin mount will be in 'B' position...

Filipino Piquero-class destroyer, laid down 1931

Displacement:
1,490 t light; 1,576 t standard; 1,715 t normal; 1,825 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
363.82 ft / 351.05 ft x 35.10 ft x 11.88 ft (normal load)
110.89 m / 107.00 m x 10.70 m x 3.62 m

Armament:
5 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (4 mounts), 70.00lbs / 31.75kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1931 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount
on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward
3 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (1x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in a deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread

Weight of broadside 368 lbs / 167 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

6 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm - -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 35,725 shp / 26,651 Kw = 33.75 kts
Range 5,300nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 248 tons)

Complement:
133 - 173

Cost:
£0.893 million / $3.573 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 44 tons, 2.6 %
Armour: 25 tons, 1.5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 25 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 825 tons, 48.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 570 tons, 33.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 225 tons, 13.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
462 lbs / 209 Kg = 6.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.92

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.410
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 76
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Stern: 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 15.19 ft / 4.63 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.6 %
Waterplane Area: 7,922 Square feet or 736 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 68 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 184 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.93
- Overall: 0.57
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Go to the top of the page

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

Posts: 7,417

5

Sunday, January 30th 2005, 1:03pm

I´m a little bit confused. Who is currently running Germany - the Doc or Kaiser?

Go to the top of the page

Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

Posts: 7,019

6

Sunday, January 30th 2005, 1:16pm

Kaiser is taking over in 1927 I think.

Here he has just produced designs that follow on to what J has laid down in 1926.

Go to the top of the page

Kaiser

Unregistered

7

Sunday, January 30th 2005, 1:41pm

Which sound like they still need a bit of work. I was working under the assumption of an aggregate structure of .50, rather than as a minimum for cross sectional or longitudinal.

Go to the top of the page

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

Posts: 7,417

8

Sunday, January 30th 2005, 1:58pm

Have you read our Gentlemen´s Rules?

Go to the top of the page

Swamphen

Mr. Dynamite

Posts: 4,191

9

Sunday, January 30th 2005, 6:22pm

...which may need updating to reflect SS2

SS2 recognizes that small combatants operate by a different set of rules...and suspends the hull-strength warnings for light fast combatants.

However, it "allows" you to take cross-sectional a bit below 0.50, before flagging it as having problems with hull strain...IIRC I've gotten cross-sec as low as 0.41 once with the programme still saying "well balanced for small light combatant".

So should we stick to 0.50 cross-sectional, or "whatever SS2 says is acceptable"?

Go to the top of the page

Kaiser

Unregistered

10

Monday, January 31st 2005, 12:56pm

Revised 1927 DD

DD 1927, German DD Fleet Destroyer laid down 1927

Displacement:
1,523 t light; 1,580 t standard; 1,700 t normal; 1,796 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
361.61 ft / 350.07 ft x 35.10 ft x 11.81 ft (normal load)
110.22 m / 106.70 m x 10.70 m x 3.60 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1927 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1927 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1927 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 275 lbs / 125 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 36,700 shp / 27,379 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 4,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 216 tons

Complement:
132 - 172

Cost:
£0.741 million / $2.963 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 34 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 23 tons, 1.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 23 tons, 1.3 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 868 tons, 51.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 578 tons, 34.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 177 tons, 10.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
485 lbs / 220 Kg = 7.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 13.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.410
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.61 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m (13.50 ft / 4.11 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
- Stern: 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
- Average freeboard: 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.9 %
Waterplane Area: 7,899 Square feet or 734 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 65 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 180 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.29
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Go to the top of the page

The Rock Doctor

Old-School Heel

Posts: 5,310

11

Monday, January 31st 2005, 2:20pm

Kaiser is taking over effective Q1/27. I have no objections to him posting possible future designs at this time - just don't go letting all your secrets out of the bag, man.

Hooman - if a few spare minutes come up, I'll tinker with the pic in light of your comments.

J

Go to the top of the page

WesWorld