WesWorld

I'm working on a pair of replacement Protected Cruisers for the Chilean navy. The two currently under construction do not seem to fill the desires of the admiralty. So a new design with mixed armaments has been selected for them to ponder. Two variants of it are ready for view. The only difference between them in a knot of speed. The slower one is slightly more seaworthy and has a decent cross-sectional...the slightly faster one has a 1.00 overall.

Both ships use Italian 8"/53 cal cannon.

These ships are intended to be used with the Armoured Cruiser Tylor in anti-raider patrols. After some feedback, I'll see about adjusting the range to equal the Tylor's 10,000 nm range.

Nevado Ojos del Salado (A)

Chilean Protected Cruiser laid down 1926

Displacement:
9,852 t light; 10,338 t standard; 11,503 t normal; 12,388 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
556.79 ft / 550.00 ft x 68.75 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
169.71 m / 167.64 m x 20.96 m x 6.40 m

Armament:
5 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (2 mounts), 276.24lbs / 125.30kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
9 - 5.90" / 150 mm guns (3x3 guns), 102.69lbs / 46.58kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 4.30" / 109 mm guns in single mounts, 39.75lbs / 18.03kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1926 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1926 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,795 lbs / 1,268 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 336.00 ft / 102.41 m 9.50 ft / 2.90 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
5th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 75,834 shp / 56,573 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,097 tons)

Complement:
554 - 721

Cost:
£3.342 million / $13.369 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 337 tons, 2.9 %
Armour: 1,702 tons, 14.8 %
- Belts: 549 tons, 4.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 658 tons, 5.7 %
- Armour Deck: 451 tons, 3.9 %
- Conning Tower: 44 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,427 tons, 21.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,235 tons, 45.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,651 tons, 14.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,796 lbs / 6,712 Kg = 57.8 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.507
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.98 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 22.96 ft / 7.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185.9 %
Waterplane Area: 24,403 Square feet or 2,267 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 647 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 2.17
- Overall: 1.08
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nevado Ojos del Salado (B)

Chilean Protected Cruiser laid down 1926

Displacement:
9,852 t light; 10,338 t standard; 11,503 t normal; 12,388 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
556.79 ft / 550.00 ft x 68.75 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
169.71 m / 167.64 m x 20.96 m x 6.40 m

Armament:
5 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (2 mounts), 276.24lbs / 125.30kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
9 - 5.90" / 150 mm guns (3x3 guns), 102.69lbs / 46.58kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 4.30" / 109 mm guns in single mounts, 39.75lbs / 18.03kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1926 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1926 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,795 lbs / 1,268 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 371.00 ft / 113.08 m 9.50 ft / 2.90 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
5th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 86,763 shp / 64,725 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,097 tons)

Complement:
554 - 721

Cost:
£3.511 million / $14.046 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 337 tons, 2.9 %
Armour: 1,748 tons, 15.2 %
- Belts: 595 tons, 5.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 658 tons, 5.7 %
- Armour Deck: 451 tons, 3.9 %
- Conning Tower: 44 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,777 tons, 24.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,889 tons, 42.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,651 tons, 14.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,964 lbs / 5,880 Kg = 50.6 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.507
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.98 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 22.96 ft / 7.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185.9 %
Waterplane Area: 24,403 Square feet or 2,267 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 124 lbs/sq ft or 604 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.00
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

For accurate gunnery you need three shell salvos to find the range. Hence it would make sense to have 6 main guns instead of 5 to be able to shoot ranging half salvos for a ladder system containing 3 shells each.

I won´t question the value of different main gun calibers fore and aft.... No, I won´t.

However, what I do question is your designers capability to find enough deck space for all those turrets. Especially because your third batter consists of 12x 109mm guns in _single_ mounts.

With a length of ~167m yout ship is as long as an Arethusa class cruiser. Keep that in mind when you dream of putting five turrets on her amidship fore and aft...

I also think those cruisers are too slow to get a raiding CL that is hunting your merchantmen.

On such displacement I have seen better - more reasonable that is - designs in WesWorld... But that´s probably just me.

Regards,

HoOmAn

Couple of points...

1. Reduce the "other gunhouse" armour by about 1/2 - it's an average of the top, sides and back. It shouldn't equal the face thickness.

2. This might (especially on the first one) give you enough strength to put two triple 8" turrets forwards.
(Think of it as a mini-Richelieu - two main turrets forwards, three secondary turrets aft.)

3. Another way to gain strengh for the extra 8" gun - reduce the misc weight a tad. Catapult + 2 planes should be enough = 75 tons.

4. Switch the third battery to twin mounts - only way they'll fit without major problems, 6 x 2 much better than 12 x 1. Might consider adding hoists, as well.

5. Might want to go to 3 or 4 shafts - ~40,000 per shaft will put a lot of strain on the machienery.

6. Nit - MGs should be on side, not centerline.

Considering that this was going to be one 10x8" cruiser or three 3x8" cruisers, I think this comes out pretty good. I'm working with 10 barrels only at the moment.

I don't want to contract out too much, so either Chile will have to start making her own guns, or cancel the protected cruiser currently under construction to gain 4 more barrels. (or only mount two of the cannon).

Mixed batteries or not, this should work. The 12x109mm were in twin mounts at first, but the singles deck mounts might work better as they will not be as wide. They are left over from when the ship had no other secondaries. That one I'll have to check later.

Tylor can only make 28 knots, so 30-31 knot cruisers as escort works. As for catching Light Cruisers....well that will depend on how and where, since there are no real raiders in WesWorld, as most places they can be used are too dangerous for such ships. Most historical (famous) raiders could only make 30 knots. There will be lots of things that can outrun these ships....tough. We will adapt ourselves to our ships, and leave the high speed actions to the destroyers and airplanes. Then build faster ships later like the Oyama.

This ship (and her sister ship) are intended to replace Blanco and Negro. (the real worlds Minister Zenteno and Blano Encalada) so in truth, anything is an improvement.

Quoted

6. Nit - MGs should be on side, not centerline.

Centerline if they are high in the towers as that is on the centerline...right?

Quoted

Centerline if they are high in the towers as that is on the centerline...right?

Got me there.

Something like this?

Nevado Ojos del Salado (A)

Chilean Protected Cruiser laid down 1926

Displacement:
9,461 t light; 9,970 t standard; 11,525 t normal; 12,723 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
556.34 ft / 550.00 ft x 68.75 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
169.57 m / 167.64 m x 20.96 m x 6.40 m

Armament:
6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (2x3 guns), 276.24lbs / 125.30kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
9 - 5.90" / 150 mm guns (3x3 guns), 102.69lbs / 46.58kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 4.30" / 109 mm guns (6x2 guns), 39.75lbs / 18.03kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1926 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1926 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,071 lbs / 1,393 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 341.50 ft / 104.09 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
5th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.25" / 32 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 66,179 shp / 49,370 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.50 kts (Bunkerage = 2,799 tons)

Complement:
556 - 723

Cost:
£3.238 million / $12.954 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 369 tons, 3.2 %
Armour: 1,737 tons, 15.1 %
- Belts: 586 tons, 5.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 542 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 565 tons, 4.9 %
- Conning Tower: 44 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,118 tons, 18.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,162 tons, 44.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,064 tons, 17.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,655 lbs / 7,101 Kg = 61.2 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.508
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.34 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.00 ft / 8.84 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 21.26 ft / 6.48 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.2 %
Waterplane Area: 24,430 Square feet or 2,270 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 651 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 2.00
- Overall: 1.08
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or

Nevado Ojos del Salado (B)

Chilean Protected Cruiser laid down 1926

Displacement:
9,572 t light; 10,081 t standard; 11,525 t normal; 12,634 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 68.75 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
169.77 m / 167.64 m x 20.96 m x 6.40 m

Armament:
6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (2x3 guns), 276.24lbs / 125.30kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
9 - 5.90" / 150 mm guns (3x3 guns), 102.69lbs / 46.58kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 4.30" / 109 mm guns (6x2 guns), 39.75lbs / 18.03kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1926 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1926 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,071 lbs / 1,393 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 341.50 ft / 104.09 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
5th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.25" / 32 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 75,965 shp / 56,670 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,599 tons)

Complement:
556 - 723

Cost:
£3.403 million / $13.613 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 369 tons, 3.2 %
Armour: 1,761 tons, 15.3 %
- Belts: 586 tons, 5.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 567 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 565 tons, 4.9 %
- Conning Tower: 44 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,432 tons, 21.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,935 tons, 42.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,953 tons, 16.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,598 lbs / 6,621 Kg = 57.0 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.508
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.34 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 22.69 ft / 6.92 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 183.5 %
Waterplane Area: 24,430 Square feet or 2,270 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 125 lbs/sq ft or 612 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.02
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

...will have to be finished like this.

Maunga Terevaka

Chilean Protected Cruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
6,537 t light; 6,724 t standard; 7,206 t normal; 7,562 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
490.00 ft / 480.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
149.35 m / 146.30 m x 18.29 m x 6.40 m

Armament:
2 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns in single mounts, 276.24lbs / 125.30kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 4.30" / 109 mm guns in single mounts, 39.75lbs / 18.03kg shells, 1925 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1925 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 724 lbs / 329 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 419.00 ft / 127.71 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 61.00 ft / 18.59 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Main Belt covers 134 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 77,385 shp / 57,729 Kw = 32.25 kts
Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 867 tons)

Complement:
390 - 508

Cost:
£2.135 million / $8.540 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 85 tons, 1.2 %
Armour: 888 tons, 12.3 %
- Belts: 369 tons, 5.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 16 tons, 0.2 %
- Armour Deck: 471 tons, 6.5 %
- Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,512 tons, 34.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,026 tons, 42.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 669 tons, 9.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,253 lbs / 2,836 Kg = 24.4 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.18
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.417
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.69 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.00 ft / 8.84 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 21.26 ft / 6.48 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.3 %
Waterplane Area: 16,982 Square feet or 1,578 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 488 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 2.85
- Overall: 1.11
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

I'd build (B), with one tweak - I'd increase the trim a click to get the "steady gun platform" rating.

IMHO it's worth the degradition of Maunga Terevaka to get the better "PC26", MT will still be a fine shore-bombardment platform (for dealing with those pesky Argies perhaps? ) - and, you can always build in provision for the extra 8" guns, and install them at a later date.

Sounds good, thank you....now I have to figure out if it will all fit...

I still think there is not enough deckspace for all those guns. Her length is just not enough even though her beam might help a bit to place all those third battery guns on her decks abreast the superstructre.

I wonder what you think she would look like? Ever considered a line drawing? Start with looking for a historical design with a similar power out put, messure engine spaces and start from there. You might be able to place third battery magazins abreast your engine rooms (uh! torpedos welcome to blow up the ship) which might save length. However, when you then start placing barbets, magazins and stuff for your five 8"/6" turrets on the centerline fore and aft I´m sure you´ll run into problems. (Sidenote: Take care of hull space reduction due to hull form and make sure there is enough space aft for your rudder machinery (and armor around it).

If you can proof me wrong, fine with me, but I still think you´ll never be able to reasonably place all that stuff on a hull 167m long. No way, sorry.

Quoted

I'd build (B), with one tweak - I'd increase the trim a click to get the "steady gun platform" rating.

While the 'Seaboat quality' is 1.20 it does not have the "Good seaboat" rating, so the freeboard may have to be raised by a little bit. It might be that once the "Good seaboat" rating is acchieved, it might also have its "steady gun platform" rating, although that is just speculation.

So she has 2x3 8" forward, one superfiring; 3x3 6" aft, one superfiring; and the remaining mounts on her beam? Plus a catapult. Plus funnels, etc. It might work. Recall that Imperitritsa Maria got 4 triple 12" and 2 funnels on the centerline onto 166 meters. Each of the two grouped batteries might take up the room of a triple 12" turret. I notice that nither of the alternatives have torpedos, which helps your deckspace problem. If you elevate the catapult, it might work.

Quoted

Originally posted by AdmKuznetsov
Each of the two grouped batteries might take up the room of a triple 12" turret.

Take a linedrawing and messure how much space is consumed by three 6" triples forward of a BROOKLYN-class CL bridge. Just messure how much space is consumed by two triple 8" turrets on any real world cruiser with such armament. A single 12" turret doesn´t need that much deck space - not to mention magazins below deck which will consume quite some hull space.

However, I haveto correct myself. Not the ARETHUSAs the LEANDERs had a length of similar size (169m). They also had a powerplant of similar output. So one has to take a linedrawing of LEANDER, put two 8" triples forward of her bridge (the latter will be placed further aft I assume), place three 6" tripples aft where LEANDER had two and put six 109mm singles on each beam. Having a beam of 20m instead of 16,9m will help a lot and buy enough hull space for magazins and hoists for those guns.

Nevertheless, I can hardly imagine five turrets on such a ships centerline. I still doubt there is enough space.

...or, mount the catapult on top of one of the turrets.

Still have to figure out where to put that blasted cat ... but it will work.

Exhibit A:

Without a scalebar such picture is hardly of any use... Also consider interiallayout.

A topside view of that ship would also be useful to determine the internal layout.

From past experiance, I'd say one pixel per foot. (as one pixel per meter doesn't give enough detail).

Looks good. I'll have to do one myself later when I have time away from family.

Merry Christmas, everyone.

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro
From past experiance, I'd say one pixel per foot. (as one pixel per meter doesn't give enough detail).

If so then there is something awefully wrong with those turrets on the drawing. Compared to hull length the forward armament is somewhat comparable to what a 6" twin might look. Just take a look on a linedrawing of Leander. The turrets aft are way too small.

If you don´t have a book with a line drawing at hand (poor guy) take a look at this one: http://warships.web4u.cz/lode.php?langua…L&trida=Leander

Note that 6" triples would require a larger barbet (diameter) and 8" triples forward would be way larger than those turrets on that drawing.

Do you still think hull length is suffice?

To be blunt: You posted your (somewhat odd) designs asking for input but then you don´t seem to care about what input you get (except superficial things). You´re not arguing, not quoting any reliable source when asked to back up your unusual assumptions and point of view. Instead you prefer to ignore all lessons learned by real world navies such as having a unique caliber main battery etc...

How will you learn something this way? Why post and ask for input anyway if it doesn´t matter to you? >|

Some valid points have been raised by various posters and so far you have not adressed them. Feel free to proof us wrong.