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1

Wednesday, August 21st 2019, 2:24pm

Chinese Designs for 1949

Comments welcome.

2

Wednesday, August 21st 2019, 2:33pm

Linyi-Class Minesweeper

The main task of the Linyi-class is the search and destruction of seamines.

Due to the equipment of the vessels, they are also able to make an accurate mapping of the seabed; also wreckage can be located in order to mark it for navigation. In addition to the mine-sweeping, the boats are also able to serve as a mine-throwing platform. It is capable of stowing up to 20 sea mines (anchory and ground mines) which can be thrown from the quarterdeck if required.

As sensors are various navigation systems, direction finder, sonar and radar devices are installed. As additional equipment, the boats have magnetic self-protection, mine diving equipment, diving pressure chamber, on-board crane and a dinghy.



Linyi; Chinese Minesweeper laid down 1949

Displacement:
520 t light; 533 t standard; 578 t normal; 613 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
186,17 ft / 178,48 ft x 30,18 ft x 8,53 ft (normal load)
56,74 m / 54,40 m x 9,20 m x 2,60 m

Armament:
2 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1949 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline forward
Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 480

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1,38" / 35 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 3.008 shp / 2.244 Kw = 20,00 kts
Range 4.000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 80 tons

electric motors for slow and silent maneuvering: speed: 2 - 6 kn


Complement:
58 - 76

Cost:
£0,220 million / $0,880 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0,1%
Armour: 3 tons, 0,5%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 1 tons, 0,2%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0,4%
Machinery: 73 tons, 12,6%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 344 tons, 59,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 57 tons, 9,9%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 17,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2.052 lbs / 931 Kg = 1.051,0 x 1,6 " / 40 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,00
Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 13,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 40 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,60

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,440
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,91 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16,13 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 20
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,13 ft / 6,44 m
- Forecastle (20%): 21,13 ft / 6,44 m
- Mid (55%): 21,13 ft / 6,44 m (17,06 ft / 5,20 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20%): 15,91 ft / 4,85 m
- Stern: 15,91 ft / 4,85 m
- Average freeboard: 18,92 ft / 5,77 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 61,5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 223,2%
Waterplane Area: 3.540 Square feet or 329 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 229%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 178 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,70
- Longitudinal: 30,89
- Overall: 1,03
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Breakdown of Misc. Weight 100tons:
10 tons radar
10 tons sonar
10 tons hydrophone
10 tons degaussing system
10 tons decompression chamber (4 divers)
30 tons mine sweeping gear
20 tons storage or mine-laying capabilities (20 mines)

3

Wednesday, August 21st 2019, 3:11pm

Overall I have no qualms about the design. My only thought is that it seems as if it is larger than it needs to be to fulfill its primary mission; if the tonnage could be brought down to below the 499 ton limit, the construction time would be substantially shortened, as well as effecting some economies.

4

Wednesday, August 21st 2019, 4:33pm

Overall I have no qualms about the design. My only thought is that it seems as if it is larger than it needs to be to fulfill its primary mission; if the tonnage could be brought down to below the 499 ton limit, the construction time would be substantially shortened, as well as effecting some economies.


That was a point I did not even think about. Of course, there is no problem lowering the Light Displacement below 500tons.

Displacement:
496 t light; 508 t standard; 546 t normal; 577 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
185,02 ft / 177,49 ft x 29,86 ft x 8,20 ft (normal load)
56,39 m / 54,10 m x 9,10 m x 2,50 m

Armament:
2 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1949 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline forward
Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 480

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1,38" / 35 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 2.914 shp / 2.173 Kw = 20,00 kts
Range 3.500nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 69 tons

Complement:
56 - 73

Cost:
£0,211 million / $0,844 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0,1%
Armour: 3 tons, 0,5%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 1 tons, 0,2%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0,4%
Machinery: 70 tons, 12,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 322 tons, 59,0%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 50 tons, 9,2%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 18,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1.914 lbs / 868 Kg = 980,3 x 1,6 " / 40 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,01
Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 13,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 40 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,60

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,440
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16,07 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 20
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20,67 ft / 6,30 m
- Forecastle (20%): 20,67 ft / 6,30 m
- Mid (55%): 20,67 ft / 6,30 m (17,06 ft / 5,20 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20%): 15,91 ft / 4,85 m
- Stern: 15,91 ft / 4,85 m
- Average freeboard: 18,67 ft / 5,69 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63,6%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 224,2%
Waterplane Area: 3.482 Square feet or 324 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 221%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 35 lbs/sq ft or 170 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,69
- Longitudinal: 29,68
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

5

Wednesday, August 21st 2019, 4:48pm

My comments...

Block coefficient is rather low for a ship of this type.

Transom sterns don't really work well for ships like this. The transom stern offers efficiencies, but those are counterbalanced by a range of negatives; they mostly make sense on faster ships. One of the negatives is that ships with transoms are often harder to maneuver at low speeds... which is where most minesweeping is done, and where you'd probably want a high degree of maneuverability available for use. Further, the transom stern design has some hydrodynamic properties that can cause stern-launched (particularly unanchored) mines to be sucked along in the ship's wake. Needless to say, this can have bad results.

Stability is almost nil, and steadiness is below average.

6

Wednesday, August 21st 2019, 5:12pm

I agree with Brock's comments on the block coefficient as well as the transom stern. I can see a couple of areas in the revised design where some other weight savings could be effected.

1 - I really don't think that a twin 40mm gun needs a "Deck mount with hoist", a simple deck mount would do.

2 - I've come to the conclusion that an armored conning tower is not necessary on very small ships. I'd suggest you look at a Springsharp with out it and see if it aids the design's stability.

7

Wednesday, August 21st 2019, 5:46pm

Hope better now :O


Displacement:
499 t light; 512 t standard; 582 t normal; 638 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
179,46 ft / 175,20 ft x 29,53 ft x 8,20 ft (normal load)
54,70 m / 53,40 m x 9,00 m x 2,50 m

Armament:
2 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1949 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mount
on centreline forward
Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 500

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 3.952 shp / 2.948 Kw = 20,00 kts
Range 5.500nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 126 tons

Complement:
59 - 77

Cost:
£0,239 million / $0,955 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0,1%
Machinery: 96 tons, 16,4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 303 tons, 52,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 82 tons, 14,2%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 17,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1.280 lbs / 581 Kg = 655,6 x 1,6 " / 40 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
Metacentric height 0,9 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 12,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,26

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,480
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13,24 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 15,91 ft / 4,85 m
- Forecastle (20%): 15,91 ft / 4,85 m
- Mid (50%): 15,91 ft / 4,85 m (9,35 ft / 2,85 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20%): 9,35 ft / 2,85 m
- Stern: 9,35 ft / 2,85 m
- Average freeboard: 12,63 ft / 3,85 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73,6%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138,1%
Waterplane Area: 3.385 Square feet or 315 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 197%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 49 lbs/sq ft or 237 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,10
- Longitudinal: 8,60
- Overall: 1,35
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

8

Wednesday, August 21st 2019, 6:16pm

Yeah, I'd say that's a lot better.

9

Wednesday, August 21st 2019, 6:17pm

Certainly better, but the stability is marginal at best - any hull damage (like a mine going off nearby) could easily be fatal. That characteristic does not have a hard and fast rule however, though I always prefer at 10% margin myself if at all possible. I suspect that sacrificing a small portion of the miscellaneous weight might resolve that.

10

Thursday, August 22nd 2019, 10:01am

Designing smaller craft like minesweepers can be a pain to get right.
The excess hull strength and low stability are results of that, often SS blows a fuze when trying to design a small relatively unarmed design with a big misc weight load. But the results are not too bad, doubtless it could be refined further with tweaking the numbers in SS.

11

Thursday, August 22nd 2019, 4:35pm

Thanks so i will go for the last version.

Where mines are sweeped, they must also be laid.

Quoted


Long, China Minelayer laid down 1949

Displacement:
1.843 t light; 1.913 t standard; 2.500 t normal; 2.969 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
244,12 ft / 238,85 ft x 45,28 ft x 14,76 ft (normal load)
74,41 m / 72,80 m x 13,80 m x 4,50 m

Armament:
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1949 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
3 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft
2 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
6 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1949 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 82 lbs / 37 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400

Armour:

- Conning tower: 0,79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2.741 shp / 2.045 Kw = 15,00 kts
Range 11.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1.057 tons

Complement:
176 - 229

Cost:
£0,629 million / $2,516 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 10 tons, 0,4%
Armour: 3 tons, 0,1%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0,1%
Machinery: 66 tons, 2,7%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.063 tons, 42,5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 657 tons, 26,3%
Miscellaneous weights: 700 tons, 28,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6.368 lbs / 2.888 Kg = 180,3 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,6 m
Roll period: 14,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,548
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,28 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15,45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Mid (50%): 11,15 ft / 3,40 m
- Quarterdeck (20%): 11,15 ft / 3,40 m
- Stern: 11,15 ft / 3,40 m
- Average freeboard: 14,14 ft / 4,31 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 44,0%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108,3%
Waterplane Area: 7.533 Square feet or 700 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 272%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 444 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,49
- Longitudinal: 5,29
- Overall: 1,69
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Breakdown of Misc. Weight (700tons):
120 tons for cranes and rails for mine stowing
20 tons for helicopter
50 tons helicopter pad and handling equipment
20 tons sonar
30 tons Degaussing system
60 tons future growth
400 tons mines (100 mines @ 4 tons)

true range: 4000sm at 15 kn / true bunker: 312 tons

low stowed cargo: 745 tons
480tons for 120 mines (@ 4 tons)
65tons for moving equipment in hull (rails, etc.)
200tons stowage

12

Tuesday, August 27th 2019, 5:15pm

Minelayer Support Vessel

Mei Yuan
Converted Freighter
Minelayer Support Vessel


Displacement:
2.963 t light; 3.078 t standard; 4.860 t normal; 6.286 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
362,55 ft / 350,07 ft x 43,31 ft x 18,70 ft (normal load)
110,51 m / 106,70 m x 13,20 m x 5,70 m

Armament:
3 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1938 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
3 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1938 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
18 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1938 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 115 lbs / 52 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 1 shaft, 3.654 shp / 2.726 Kw = 15,00 kts
Range 40.000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3.208 tons

Complement:
290 - 378

Cost:
£0,732 million / $2,926 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 14 tons, 0,3%
Machinery: 100 tons, 2,1%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.349 tons, 27,8%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.897 tons, 39,0%
Miscellaneous weights: 1.500 tons, 30,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11.587 lbs / 5.256 Kg = 328,0 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 2,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,00
Metacentric height 1,4 ft / 0,4 m
Roll period: 15,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,600
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18,71 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4,27 ft / 1,30 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20,34 ft / 6,20 m
- Forecastle (20%): 17,72 ft / 5,40 m
- Mid (50%): 17,72 ft / 5,40 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 17,72 ft / 5,40 m
- Stern: 17,72 ft / 5,40 m
- Average freeboard: 17,93 ft / 5,46 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 43,9%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,2%
Waterplane Area: 10.846 Square feet or 1.008 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 268%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 316 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 3,23
- Overall: 1,08
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Breakdown of MIscellaneous Weight (1500tons):
Enhanced deck handling gear (cranes, winches etc.) : 300 tons
Provision for nets, booms and buoys as cargo: 200 tons
Workshops and facilities: 500 tons
Accommodations and amenities for supported vessels: 500 tons

Low-stowed cargo simmed as additionals fuel - true bunkers 1008tons; (8000 sm)
low-stowed-cargo: 2200 tons
mines stowage - 2000 tons
mine maintenance shop - 200 tons

Converted merchantman (25%):
Cost to acquire and convert as naval auxiliary = 741 tons