Varyag-class Cruiser

The Shadow

Monday, July 8th 2019, 5:07pm

Here's a design that I'm considering for Russia in 1949.

Back in 1948, I retired the four escort cruisers of the original Varyag-class. These were basically part of the Cleito Treaty-era escort cruisers, and were deployed to the Northern Fleet. However, they were among the least modernization-friendly ships of that period, and therefore I retired and scrapped them, which is a simply shocking lack of Russian frugality - retaining equipment well past it's use-by date.

However, I've got twelve twin 234mm turrets lying around...

While the Russian Pacific Fleet has not been completely ignored over the last few years, particularly after the rising concerns about China, it's time to put some Russian love into the area. One of the concerns is that the main Russian surface squadron has a grand total of one battlecruiser (the 6x14" Khranitel) and four 12x6" Senyavin light cruisers. Very... fearsome? But there are now (at least for the moment) three Russian carriers in the Pacific as well. While the Russians feel quite confident that their carrier aviators can handle the pathetic Chinese carriers (which are numerous but small, and not well-equipped technologically), there's still concern should the force accidentally stumble into a surface action.

Hence, there is this proposal to reuse the 234mm twin turrets of the old Varyags to build a pair of new 'heavy' cruisers (with some waffling on the use of the word 'heavy'). These ships are primarily designed to be closely tied to escorting the Pacific Fleet's carriers. Therefore, their primary armament - the 6x234s - is viewed as less important than the very heavy dual-purpose secondary battery they bring to the escort role, as well as a very extensive electronics suite suitable for fleet command ships. The primary battery is viewed as heavy enough to force Chinese cruisers, even heavy ones, to keep some range and distance from the carrier fleet.

The Russians have enough turrets that I can also build two 4x2 ships; but here's the 3x2 design, which I slightly favor.

I also have, just as a bit of a random side-note, a 9x180mm-armed 3x3 cruiser that shares this hull design; but Wesworld Russia does not and has never used the very interesting (to me) OTL 18cm Russian gun. Ah well. :)

Quoted

Varyag-class, Russian Escort Cruisers laid down 1949

Displacement:
13,782 t light; 14,362 t standard; 16,921 t normal; 18,969 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
721.78 ft / 721.78 ft x 72.18 ft x 20.67 ft (normal load)
220.00 m / 220.00 m x 22.00 m x 6.30 m

Armament:
6 - 9.21" / 234 mm guns (3x2 guns), 440.92lbs / 200.00kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 79.37lbs / 36.00kg shells, 1949 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 79.37lbs / 36.00kg shells, 1949 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1949 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,045 lbs / 1,835 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 10.20 ft / 3.11 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.69" / 170 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.59" / 15 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -

- Armour deck: 2.76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 98,131 shp / 73,205 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,607 tons

Complement:
741 - 964

Cost:
£9.301 million / $37.205 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 480 tons, 2.8 %
Armour: 3,470 tons, 20.5 %
- Belts: 943 tons, 5.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 530 tons, 3.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,930 tons, 11.4 %
- Conning Tower: 67 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,373 tons, 14.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,014 tons, 41.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,140 tons, 18.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 445 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29,911 lbs / 13,567 Kg = 76.5 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 3.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.86 ft / 9.10 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 28.22 ft / 8.60 m
- Mid (50 %): 26.57 ft / 8.10 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 22.27 ft / 6.79 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 204.2 %
Waterplane Area: 37,852 Square feet or 3,517 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 135 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 619 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Notes:
155 tons per twin turret - 465 tons saved in total.

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BruceDuncan

Ex chaos ordo

Posts: 12,916

2

Monday, July 8th 2019, 6:54pm

The design looks quite reasonable to me. Many of the Cleito-era 'escort cruisers' that I recall seeing were woefully deficient in speed; while conservative, 32 knots is not bad, about at the point where the costs for additional speed start to escalate. Firepower looks good too. I'd say they're a sound investment.

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thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

Posts: 13,513

3

Monday, July 8th 2019, 9:15pm

I'm curious as to what the 4x2 version looks like. If they are all in one fleet having three ships with 4x2 rather than four ships of 3x2 shouldn't really matter if you can produce something a little tougher in the armour department. That said I like these ships, the armour is sufficient against heavy cruisers and the armament is superior and the surface capability being more of a secondary role makes the opposite argument in terms of hull numbers, more hulls to provide an AA screen.

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Brockpaine

The Shadow

Posts: 15,109

4

Monday, July 8th 2019, 10:01pm

Quoted from "thesmilingassassin"

I'm curious as to what the 4x2 version looks like. If they are all in one fleet having three ships with 4x2 rather than four ships of 3x2 shouldn't really matter if you can produce something a little tougher in the armour department.

At the moment, I really only have a pair of ships in mind (Varyag and Bayan, although I won't rule out a follow-on or two for 1950, since I have the turrets available.

Here's the 4x2 design. There are some tradeoffs made with this 4x2 design. The most unfortunate, from my point of view, is that the ship would be too long for a Type 3 slip or drydock, ruling out any potential repairs at the important Pacific Fleet base at Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky; the ship would need to get to Vladivostok (in a theoretical conflict with China, a little too close to the action) or make Cam Ranh Bay, with similar issues. I won't deny that a 4x2 design will have significantly better combat potential than the 3x2 ship - even for the tonnages involved - but I still lean toward the 3x2 ship for those aforementioned reasons. If I selected the 8x234mm version, I'd probably also need to upgrade the Petropavlovsk drydock (which, admittedly, probably is a worthwhile investment).

Quoted

Varyag-class 4x2 Alternative, Russian Escort Cruisers laid down 1949

Displacement:
15,098 t light; 15,758 t standard; 18,461 t normal; 20,624 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
741.47 ft / 741.47 ft x 75.46 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
226.00 m / 226.00 m x 23.00 m x 6.40 m

Armament:
8 - 9.21" / 234 mm guns (4x2 guns), 440.92lbs / 200.00kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 79.37lbs / 36.00kg shells, 1949 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1949 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1949 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,927 lbs / 2,235 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 10.20 ft / 3.11 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.69" / 170 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.59" / 15 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -

- Armour deck: 2.76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 102,881 shp / 76,749 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,866 tons

Complement:
791 - 1,029

Cost:
£10.403 million / $41.611 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 578 tons, 3.1 %
Armour: 3,775 tons, 20.4 %
- Belts: 949 tons, 5.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 683 tons, 3.7 %
- Armour Deck: 2,073 tons, 11.2 %
- Conning Tower: 71 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,487 tons, 13.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,812 tons, 42.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,363 tons, 18.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 445 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
31,988 lbs / 14,510 Kg = 81.8 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 3.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.83 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.95 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.18 ft / 9.20 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 28.38 ft / 8.65 m
- Mid (50 %): 26.57 ft / 8.10 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 22.35 ft / 6.81 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 205.7 %
Waterplane Area: 40,652 Square feet or 3,777 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 652 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.09
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Notes:
155 tons per twin turret - 620 tons saved in total.

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Hood

Ugly Aircraft, Inc

Posts: 8,155

5

Tuesday, July 9th 2019, 2:47pm

Seems a good design overall, I would share your favour of the 3x2 variant.
32kts seems about right for good speed without spending over the odds on extra horsepower. The armour scheme is nothing fancy but looks reasonable for the role.
I am still trying to envision the secondary armament layout, having three 130mm and three 76mm mounts on each beam feels rather cramped in terms of deck layout and arcs and supposes a large two-deck tier battery.

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thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

Posts: 13,513

6

Wednesday, July 10th 2019, 9:45am

I don't think it should be too hard to fit 3x twin 130mm and 3 twin 75mm mounts per side, Varyag is roughly similar to U.S.S Salem in length. Salems 3" battery if reduced could have allowed another pair of 5" turrets per side IMO, Varyag just swaps a possible 4th 3" mount for a 5.1" turret.

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WesWorld

Varyag-class Cruiser

Varyag-class Cruiser

Quoted

Quoted from "thesmilingassassin"

Quoted