WesWorld

The Dutch are in need of replacing their old Atlantic A-9 series with a new advanced piston-engine trainer.

The A-9 was basically a T-6. The requirement is for a medium-performance trainer with a 450-750hp engine, ability to carry light weapons and one MG and also for a naval variant with an arrestor hook.
The requirement will probably be for at least 100 aircraft to be delivered during 1948-49.

The Bf243 trainer would appear to meet the desired parameters with perhaps the question of engine power; its 800 hp engine is slightly more powerful than the specification. Those Bf243 aircraft being delivered to the Marineflieger are fitted with arresting equipment.

I'm not too worried if the engine is over 750hp. Extra grunt is fine.

British contenders would be the Avro Athena and Boulton Paul Balliol, both are still in the prototype stage with various turboprop engines. The Balliol also has a naval version with folding wings and arrestor hook.
All are as yet unproven and even in Q3/47 are in very early development. The Dutch are weary of turboprops having no experience with them and deliveries would be realistically 1949 or later.
There is also the Percival P.56 Provost with side-by-side seating and a 550hp Alvis Leonides V radial. No naval variant planned however. Again is still in prototype stage with deliveries unlikely before Q4/48 at the earliest.

Belgium has nothing to offer in this class.

Argentina could offer its I.Ae.22DL but its getting on and using an FMA engine is a wildcard and again there is no naval version.

For what it is worth, the Vf191 jet trainer will eventually be adapted for carrier operation. But first the aircraft needs to be trialled and the kinks worked out (danged undercarts and all).

France is able to offer the tried-and-true Morane-Saulnier M.S.470 Vanneau (in multiple variations including carrier-ready versions) while Russia can offer the Yakovlev Yak-11. I've also got another Russian trainer that could meet a slightly lower-performing spec; it's more of an intermediate trainer, really. However, it's currently unarmed and has a Tumansky 555hp turboprop.

The French naval jet trainer-aka-strike-aircraft-aka-cheap-man's-jet-fighter is in production and could be made available in 1948 or 1949, but obviously it's not prop-powered as the spec demands. Nevertheless, Morane-Saulnier would try to demonstrate that it's way cooler than any of those other planes people are offering.

Quoted

Morane-Saulnier M.S.470 Vanneau ("Plover") trainer aircraft

Statistics
Crew: 2 (trainee pilot + instructor)
Length: 9.05 m (30 ft 8 in)
Wingspan: 10.65 m (35 ft 11 in)
Height: 3.62 m (12 ft 11 in)
Wing area: 17.30 m² (186.22 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,351 kg (5,183 lb)
Max Takeoff Weight: 3,125 kg (6,889 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Gnome et Rhône 14M radial (522kW / 700HP) OR Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 V-12 piston engine, 641 kW (860 hp)

Performance
Maximum speed: 445 km/h (277 mph)
Max Range: 1500 km (932 miles)
Service ceiling: 8500 m (27,900 ft)
Rate of climb: Not available

Armamant
- 2 x MAC 1934 7.5mm wing-mounted machine-guns
- Light bombs or rockets (up to 250kg)

Variants
- MS.470: Original variant
- MS.472: Production variant equipped with Gnome-Rhone 14M-05 radial engine.
- MS.474: MS.472 variant equipped for aircraft carrier operations.
- MS.475: Version powered by Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 inline engine.

Quoted

Yakovlev Yak-11

Specifications
Crew: Two - student and instructor
Length: 8.20 m (26 ft 10½ in)
Wingspan: 9.4 m (30 ft 10 in)
Height: 3.28 m (10 ft 5 in)
Wing area: 15.40 m² (166 ft²)
Empty weight: 1,900 kg (4,189 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 2,440 kg (5,379 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Shvetsov ASh-21 air-cooled radial piston engine, 521 kW (700 hp)

Performance
Maximum speed: 460 km/h (289 mph)
Cruise speed: 370 km/h (230 mph)
Range: 1250 km (795 miles)
Service ceiling: 7,100 m (23,295 ft)
Rate of climb: 8.1 m/s (1,600 ft/min)
Wing loading: 161 kg/m² (32.9 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 0.17 kW/kg (0.10 hp/lb)

Armament
- 1x nose-mounted machine gun, either 12.7 mm UBS or 7.62 mm ShKAS
- 200 kg (440 lb) of bombs on two underwing racks

As the Bf243 and the M.S.472/474 Vanneau seem fairly evenly matched, both companies are invited to send an aircraft each to De Vlijt Air Base during November for comparative trials by the Testing Department of the Royal Netherlands Air Force.

Quoted from "Hood"

As the Bf243 and the M.S.472/474 Vanneau seem fairly evenly matched, both companies are invited to send an aircraft each to De Vlijt Air Base during November for comparative trials by the Testing Department of the Royal Netherlands Air Force.

That should not be difficult. Is there a specific timeframe?

No problems at all with that.

Shall we say make sure both aircraft are there by 10 November?
I reckon the trials will take most of the month, weather permitting.

Quoted from "Hood"

Shall we say make sure both aircraft are there by 10 November?
I reckon the trials will take most of the month, weather permitting.

:thumbsup: from here

I still haven't found any deciding factor to make a decision one way or the other for the Bf243 and the M.S.472/474. Both seem so evenly matched.
The only gap is the rate of climb for the Morane but going by the other specs, its probably not dissimilar from the Bf243.

I briefly thought about licence-production but I'll probably go for a bulk buy, or at least blocks of production orders. The Dutch have a record of ordering from both nations so there is no precedent or favouritism either.
Decisions, decisions...

I am Dutch and therefore completely unbiased.

Performance-wise they are fairly similar with the Bf243 having a slight edge in service ceiling, but I don't think such a high ceiling is needed for a training aircraft. I would go for the Morane-Saulnier as I feel it is slightly more flexible with the weapons that can be used for training and you do not loose any weapon hard points in order to hang a pair of MG pods underneath the wings.

... but that is just my opinion. You may have something else in mind which you may deem important and which would give the Bf243 an edge over the M.S.472/474.

Your analysis is much the same as mine, the Bf243 does have some weapons capability too.
I guess it will come down to the toss of a coin (aka IC the pilots find something in the handling that they prefer).