WesWorld

Repository for the subject

Presidente De la Vega, Philippine Short-Sea Passenger laid down 1947

Displacement: 2,767 t light; 2,866 t standard; 4,936 t normal; 6,591 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

342.60 ft / 331.36 ft x 48.06 ft x 18.70 ft (normal load) [104.42 m / 101.00 m x 14.65 m x 5.70 m]

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 9,208 shp / 6,869 Kw = 19.00 kts
Range 20,000nm at 17.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,725 tons

Complement: 293 - 382

Cost: £0.936 million / $3.744 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 227 tons, 4.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,740 tons, 35.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,168 tons, 43.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 800 tons, 16.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 17,030 lbs / 7,724 Kg = 157.7 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 4.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 13.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.580
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.89: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.20 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 18.86 ft / 5.75 m (17.22 ft / 5.25 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Quarterdeck (25 %): 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Stern: 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Average freeboard: 17.81 ft / 5.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 34.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.0 %
Waterplane Area: 11,433 Square feet or 1,062 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 393 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 429 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.25
- Longitudinal: 4.05
- Overall: 1.40
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Low-stowed cargo simmed as additional bunkers. Actual radius 8,000 nm at bunkers of 808 tons.

Breakdown of miscellaneous weights:

Cabins for up to 150 passengers - 400 tons
Dining room, salon, additional galley - 200 tons
Amenities - 100 tons
Navigational equipment - 100 tons

Cargo capacity 1,180 tons including ventilated cargo stowage forward

According to the springstyle notes, for 1947 you need to apply a 2.88 modifier (1+((1947-1900)/25)) to the weights for steerage passengers (1.5t) and cabin-class passengers (4t)

150 steerage passengers x 4.38 tons = 657 tons.

150 cabin-class passengers x 11.52 tons = 1728 tons.

Are these rules generally applied to our present designs? I haven't got a copy of Springstyle; before my time.

As far as I know, there has never been anything about it on the board to change that so I believe they should still apply. I did not know you had no copy of the springstyle notes though I think that that is something that should have been put in the rules board somewhere for those who never messed around with Springstyle and only with Springsharp as they contain the general guidelines to simming submarines, carriers, cargo ships and ocean liners which should apply to both Springstyle and Springsharp.

Hope this attachment works...

Quoted from "Rooijen10"

As far as I know, there has never been anything about it on the board to change that so I believe they should still apply. I did not know you had no copy of the springstyle notes though I think that that is something that should have been put in the rules board somewhere for those who never messed around with Springstyle and only with Springsharp as they contain the general guidelines to simming submarines, carriers, cargo ships and ocean liners which should apply to both Springstyle and Springsharp.

Hope this attachment works...

Thank you. I shall have to digest this. However, is your understanding of the applicability of Springstyle shared by the rest of the player base?

There is a post somewhere with the calculations and such, but I don't believe it was ever bookmarked. I'll try to get that put in later today or tomorrow...

Edit: I added the ocean liner post really quickly. However, thinking about it, there are a couple other oddball rules that we've instituted over the years that don't seem to be clearly posted. I may go back and try to get those organized in a single informational file.

Quoted

However, thinking about it, there are a couple other oddball rules that we've instituted over the years that don't seem to be clearly posted.

I think one would be the use of a ship's fuel to sim cargo. Subtracting miscellaneous weights representing water in the well decks of amphibious ships from light displacement if that is used instead of a ship's fuel. Maybe a different use of ton per soldier for short ranged landing ships though I could be mixing that one up with Navalism.

When looking at the Design Rules for Gentlemen, the "Switching mains and secondaries" of point 3 is only valid for Springstyle since Springsharp has the option to raise all batteries, something that was only possible with the main batteries in Springstyle. Also, the "Stability" issue of point 4 is something that happens with Springsharp 1 and IIRC that does not occurs with Springstyle 2.

Quoted from "Rooijen10"

Quoted

However, thinking about it, there are a couple other oddball rules that we've instituted over the years that don't seem to be clearly posted.

I think one would be the use of a ship's fuel to sim cargo. Subtracting miscellaneous weights representing water in the well decks of amphibious ships from light displacement if that is used instead of a ship's fuel. Maybe a different use of ton per soldier for short ranged landing ships though I could be mixing that one up with Navalism.

Yes, the first two are among the ones I was thinking of. Don't think we've ever discussed short-range landing craft here, though - sounds like a Navalism thing to me.

When I look at your Fantassin Infantry Landing Craft, it says that "Between 180 and 200 infantry can be carried", but that vessel only has 65 tons which are assigned to the DRBN-1 and landing gear and cargo. If you are going to apply the normal 2 tons per soldier, you'd require 360-400 tons of miscellaneous weights to cover those soldiers. So maybe there was something?

Regardless, it would probably have been better if we had immediately put those oddball rules into the rules board.

... and sorry about polluting your merchant threat with this stuff Bruce... uhm... the Presidente De la Vega... uhm... Only thing to me that it looks like the freeboard in the picture should be higher than what you simmed. Using the aft deck to determine it with MS Paint, I got 1.25-1.65 meters more than the sim...

In any case, it looks as though some revision to the design would be appropriate. And the freeboard was a question I had - it probably is lower than it ought to be. I shall have to play with Springsharp a bit.

Let's try this:

Presidente De la Vega - Rev A, Philippine Short-Sea Passenger laid down 1947

Displacement: 4,024 t light; 4,140 t standard; 5,787 t normal; 7,104 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

344.59 ft / 331.36 ft x 51.35 ft x 19.36 ft (normal load) [105.03 m / 101.00 m x 15.65 m x 5.90 m]

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 8,377 shp / 6,249 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 20,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,964 tons

Complement: 331 - 431

Cost: £1.235 million / $4.940 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 207 tons, 3.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,417 tons, 41.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,763 tons, 30.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,400 tons, 24.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 17,684 lbs / 8,021 Kg = 163.7 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 3.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 15.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.615
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.45: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.20 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 34
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m (21.33 ft / 6.50 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarterdeck (25 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Stern: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 22.01 ft / 6.71 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 39.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.9 %
Waterplane Area: 12,619 Square feet or 1,172 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 319 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 501 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.33
- Longitudinal: 7.35
- Overall: 1.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Low-stowed cargo simmed as additional bunkers. Actual radius 8,000 nm at bunkers of 808 tons.

Breakdown of miscellaneous weights:

Accommodation for 120 cabin passengers – 1,200 tons
Cargo handling equipment - 100 tons
Navigational equipment - 100 tons

Cargo capacity 1,000 tons including ventilated cargo stowage forward