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Wednesday, July 15th 2015, 5:04pm

Philippine Request for Proposal

The Philippine Constabulary has a requirement for up to twelve amphibious aircraft to fulfill the missions of maritime search and rescue and utility transport. Tenders are invited for an off-the-shelf aircraft with desired characteristics as follows:

(1) Twin-engine configuration. Radial piston engines are preferred but other options will be considered

(2) Aircraft should be capable of alighting and taking off from the open ocean and operate with minimum shore support

(3) Crew of two/three with provision for a minimum of four passengers or equivalent freight; aircraft capable of carrying up to eight passengers or freight will be preferred

(4) Operational cruising speed should be greater than 280 kph; radius of operation should be greater than 1,000 km.


Wednesday, July 15th 2015, 5:47pm

Guess the best the Japanese can offer is the awesome H8K which is what the Philippine Constabulary should buy but probably can't afford (both due to the lack of budget and manpower). :)

Japanese thinking...

- Twin-engine configuration... on each wing - check

- Radial piston engines are preferred - check

- Aircraft should be capable of alighting and taking off from the open ocean - check

- operate with minimum shore support - check

- Crew of two/three... uhm...

- aircraft capable of carrying up to eight passengers... uhm... 2 + 8 = 10 - check and check on the previous point

- Operational cruising speed should be greater than 280 kph - check

- radius of operation should be greater than 1,000 km - check

... so must be a valid design. :D


Wednesday, July 15th 2015, 5:58pm

As is typical, Japanese assumptions seem to miss the mark. Two engines on each wing is not a twin-engine configuration. Sorry, no contract for you. :thumbdown:


Wednesday, July 15th 2015, 6:30pm

Like I said the Philippine Constabulary probably can't afford it. Even if the Japanese were to offer them for free, all the additional extra costs will make it hard for the Philippine Constabulary to convince the Senate that getting the H8K is a good thing:

- Assuming 12 aircraft, instead of 24-36 men, they would require 120 men to man the planes. That is an additional 84-96 men. Not only will it be necessary to pay wages for these extra men, but they also need to be trained.

- Engine-wise you need to spend twice the amount of time or twice the amount of mechanics for maintenance of the engines.

- Big, heavy machine (especially when loaded) means higher fuel consumption.

I could look into the H9A to see what can be done with that airframe, but considering that the Philippine Navy already operates with the Consolidated PBY, would it not make sense to use that one instead of looking for something else?


Wednesday, July 15th 2015, 6:48pm

In default of any other options, the Constabulary would probably end up with some sort of Catalina; unfortunately,

(a) the PBY design is getting somewhat long in the tooth - still useful, but dated

(b) the PBY is designed as a patrol-bomber - while it can lift the weight, interior space is constricted and not intended for passengers or cargo

(c) the PBY is armed. The Constabulary is looking for an unarmed aircraft - though if forced to take something that could be armed, they'd deal

(d) the PBY is far more long-legged for what the Constabulary needs


Wednesday, July 15th 2015, 10:42pm

The PBY may be dated but perhaps some in the Senate might think "Does the Philippine Constabulary really need a new plane? They are not going to be involved in any kind of conflicts and it is for search and rescue and transport so some second-hand PBYs are more than enough for them".

As for armament, I do not see why that is a problem. I'm pretty sure it can be removed. Long range should not be a problem either because long range means that the Philippine Constabulary can carry out the search and rescue part a lot longer and transport stuff further.

Just messing around a bit with the numbers of the H9A1. Wiki states that the H9A was employed for "anti-submarine missions along the Japanese coasts, transport, paratroop training and liaison" so I guess a slightly modified one could work.

As indicated on wiki, the H9A had a pilot, co-pilot, observer, flight engineer and a radio-operator + seating for 3 pupil crew members which I guess can be used for passengers. I guess the crew could be reduced to three if I were to go for a pilot, co-pilot/flight engineer and observer/radio-operator to probably free up space for 2 additional passengers. No idea about how much cargo it could carry but I guess that since the H9A could carry two 250kg bombs or depth charges, it should be able to lift at least that amount in cargo + 300-350kg normally for the passenger weight + 30-40 kg from the two MGs and their fittings + ammunition that is not fitted on this version.

Aichi H9A2
Crew: 3 + 5 passengers
Length: 16.95 m
Wingspan: 24.00 m
Height: 5.25 m
Empty weight: 4,860 kg
Loaded weight: 6,900 kg
Powerplant: Two Nakajima Kotobuki, 800 hp
Maximum speed: 330 km/h
Service ceiling: 7,000 m
Range: 1,200 km (max 2,500 km)
Armament: None.


Thursday, July 16th 2015, 12:16am

Beriev will have an entry, but I'll need to get the specs posted later.


Thursday, July 16th 2015, 12:29am

Beriev will have an entry, but I'll need to get the specs posted later.

We are in no rush.

Beriev? Hmm.


Thursday, July 16th 2015, 5:46pm

Let's shake things up a bit. :)


Beriev Be-4 Flying Boat

General characteristics:
Crew: 2 (pilot + spotter/radioman)
Passengers: 7-9
Length: 13 m (42.6 ft)
Wingspan: 18 m (59 ft)
Height: 5.25m (17.2 ft)
Wing area: 31m² (333.7 ft²)
Empty weight: 2700 kg (5,952 lbs)
Loaded weight: 4,989 kg (11,000 lbs)
Powerplant: 2x Tumansky turboprop engines, 555 shp each

Maximum speed: 340 kph \ 211 mph (183.5 knots)
Max Range: 1,480 km (920 mi)
Service ceiling: 5,500 m (18,044 ft)
Rate of climb: 11 ft/s (3.35 m/s)

The Beriev Design Bureau developed the Be-4 design as a light airliner and maritime patrol / search and rescue aircraft. Beriev's original design specified a pair of V-12 inline engines mounted in push-pull configuration in a sponson. However, Tumansky proposed incorporating a pair of 555hp turboprop engines, developed in collaboration with Turbomeca of France, which provided better power at altitude. The first aircraft first flew (with inline engines) in February of 1945, and entered service with Aeroflot in April of 1946.


Thursday, July 16th 2015, 6:04pm

I don't suppose that you have a drawing of the WW Be-4... if not, what does it sort of look like?


Thursday, July 16th 2015, 6:09pm

Nice design. Is it based on a real world design?


Thursday, July 16th 2015, 7:19pm

I don't suppose that you have a drawing of the WW Be-4... if not, what does it sort of look like?

Sorry, no drawings. Best help I can give is that it probably looks like a Russified version of the Dornier Do-18.

Nice design. Is it based on a real world design?

I have a file where I keep ship and aircraft designs I never used, and I revived this with minor modifications from that file. I probably had some real-world exemplars when I made it, but I don't recall what they are now.


Friday, July 17th 2015, 3:49pm

Offers from:

N.V. Nederlandsche Vliegtuigenfabriek Fokker

Fokker T.XV-W
In 1943 a requirement was raised to replace the Do-18 fleet and Fokker designed a medium-sized flying boat. The design of the hull required hours of hydrodynamic trials and the high-mounted monoplane wing has retractable floats. Up to six crewmen can be carried and there are glazed observation stations on each side of the fuselage and in the nose is a Phillips surface-search RDF set. The prototype flew on 11 November 1944 and entry into service was during mid-1946.
Wingspan: 20.3 m (66 ft 7 in)
Length: 14.7 m (48 ft 3 in)
Height: 5.72 m (18 ft 9 in)
Empty weight: 4150 kg (9,150 lb)
Max take-off weight: 6500 kg (14,330 lb)
Powerplant: 2× 1,230hp Junkers Motorenbau Jumo 208C 12-cyl diesel engines
Maximum speed: 362 km/h (225 mph)
Cruising speed: 29 km/h (183 mph)
Service ceiling: 8685 m (28,500 ft)
Rate of climb: 6.9 m/s (1,350 ft/min)
Range: 2285 km (1,420 miles)
Armament: twin 13.2mm GAST MGs in dorsal turret, 1x 13.2mm GAST MG in each side hatch, bomb load of bombs/ depth bombs/ mines up to 2000 kg (4400 lb) underwing
Note: For the Philippine requirement the dorsal turret can be omitted as can the underwing hardpoints although they can be used for supply canisters and life rafts. There is no Avia-Minerva radial in this power range but American Cyclone radials could be fitted but there would be additional costs for testing and certification.

Short Brothers

Short S.46 Sealand
A light commercial amphibian aircraft for 5-7 passengers designed for the general transportation market in territories with suitable water and land facilities. It could take off from and land on rivers, lakes and sheltered bays or prepared runways. A crew of two is carried. It had a high wing cantilever monoplane configuration with a flying boat hull and both underwing floats and a standard tail-wheel undercarriage to enable amphibious operation. The prototype Sealand first flew on 22 January 1946 from the waters of Belfast Lough piloted by Shorts' Chief Test Pilot, Harold Piper. It was followed by four pre-production aircraft for testing and demonstration purposes.
Length: 42 ft 2 in (12.86 m)
Wingspan: 59 ft 0 in (17.99 m)
Height: 15 ft 0 in (4.57 m)
Wing area: 353 ft² (32.8 m)
Empty weight: 7,007 lb (3,190 kg)
Max. take-off weight: 9,100 lb (4,130 kg)
Powerplant: two 340hp de Havilland Gipsy Queen VII-4 inverted inline air cooled piston engines
Maximum speed: 187 mph (162 knots, 300 km/h)
Cruise speed: 175 mph (152 knots, 282 km/h)
Range: 660 miles (574 nm, 1063 km)
Service ceiling: 20,600 ft (6,280 m)
Rate of climb: 880 ft/min (4.5 m/s)
Note: Shorts could investigate fitting Leonides radial engines but they think the proven Gipsy engine should have all the relivability and economy of operation the Philippines are looking for. The two crew are pilot and navigator, dual controls can be fitted.

General Aviation (UK) Ltd.

Aerocar Major (Seaplane)
The airline Portsmouth, Southsea & Isle of Wight Aviation began trading as Inland Flying Services in 1923, in 1943 the name changed to Portsmouth Aviation when the company also began an maintenance and repair business. In 1942 Portsmouth Aviation’s chairman and joint managing director Lionel Balfour began ‘Project 109’, a twin-boom light aircraft for the airline’s low density routes. This became the Aerocar in two versions, the Aerocar Major with two 155hp Blackburn Cirrus Major II and the Aerocar Minor with two 101hp Cirrus Minor II engines. The Aerocar has an upward-swinging tail cone/door for access to the fuselage for easy cargo loading with the floor only 9ins off the ground, four car-type doors are used when five or six passengers are carried. Two to four stretchers can also be fitted in an ambulance role. The fuselage was all-metal but the booms and wings were wooden and the engines mounted in two ‘power eggs’ for easy servicing and removal. The seaplane has two floats beneath the engines and booms. The prototype first flew June 18 1945. Prices are; Major £5,050. Dimensions; 42/ 26.3/ 8.7/ 255 sq ft; 2x 155hp Blackburn Cirrus Major III; max cruising speed 153mph; normal cruise speed 141mph; range 669 miles (normal cruising speed); service ceiling 19,800ft; max rate of climb 1,180ft/min and maximum take-off weight 3,950lbs.

BCAC (Vickers)

BCAC (Vickers-Supermarine) Type 381 Seagull ASR.Mk.I
Designed to replace the Sea Otter, the Type 381 met Spec S.14/44 and the prototype, PA143, first flew on 14 July 1945. It has a high-mounted variable-incidence wing (pivoting at the front spar, actuated by an electrically driven jackscrew attached to the rear spa) fitted with two streamlined stabiliser floats and the central pylon supports a Rolls-Royce Griffon engine fitted with contra-rotating propellers. The wings are fitted with slotted flaps and full length leading-edge slats and can be folded for ship-board stowage. A wheeled undercarriage is also fitted. Loaded weight is 14,500lbs and a crew of three is carried and in the rescue role, seven survivors can be accommodated.
Dimensions; 52.6 (23.6 folded)/ 44.1/ 15.10/ 432 sq ft; 1x 1,815hp Rolls-Royce Griffon IV; max speed 260mph at 11,800ft; range 1,230 miles; service ceiling 23,900ft and rate of climb 1,515 ft/min at 7,000 ft.


Saturday, July 25th 2015, 5:29pm

Offer from Chosen: Gwangju Aircraft Industries GS-53 (mod. 1945)

Crew: 2
Passengers: 8
Length: 14.91 m

Wingspan: 19.80 m

Empty weight: 4,120 kg

Max. take-off weight: 6,480 kg

Powerplant: two 14 cylinder radial engines, 2x 935 hp

Maximum speed: 330 km/h

Cruise speed: 285 km/h

Range: 1930 km

Service ceiling: 6,000 m


Tuesday, August 4th 2015, 6:50pm

After due consideration, the Philippine Constabulary has selected the Short Sealand to meet its need for an amphibious utility support aircraft.

However, the Philippine Navy is impressed with the potential of the Beriev Be-4, and will acquire the aircraft to equip a staff transport flight.

Thank you all for your contributions to the process.


Tuesday, August 4th 2015, 8:17pm

Other planes look to me to be better than the Short so no doubt the members of the Philippine Constabulary have accepted bribes from Short Brothers officials to vote in favor for their wheelie bin...


Tuesday, August 4th 2015, 8:33pm

Other planes look to me to be better than the Short so no doubt the members of the Philippine Constabulary have accepted bribes from Short Brothers officials to vote in favor for their wheelie bin...


Sour grapes is not becoming.