WesWorld

Looking ahead to 1947, I think the next building priority will be the replace the second-hand minesweepers and escort craft with two new vessels.

The new coastal minesweeper, the Herstal Class. More or less the historical design which was a licence-built Ham Class.

Quoted

Herstal Class, Belgium Minesweeper laid down 1947

Displacement:
150 t light; 154 t standard; 163 t normal; 171 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
117.49 ft / 113.19 ft x 21.98 ft x 6.89 ft (normal load)
35.81 m / 34.50 m x 6.70 m x 2.10 m

Armament:
2 - 0.91" / 23.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.44lbs / 0.20kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline forward
2 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1928 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 1 lbs / 0 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 850

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 620 shp / 462 Kw = 15.03 kts
Range 2,300nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 17 tons

Complement:
22 - 29

Cost:
£0.054 million / $0.218 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 1 tons, 0.4 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 15 tons, 9.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 69 tons, 42.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 13 tons, 8.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 65 tons, 39.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
363 lbs / 165 Kg = 978.9 x 0.9 " / 23 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 12.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.93

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.333
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.15 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 10.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 26
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Mid (65 %): 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 7.38 ft / 2.25 m
- Stern: 7.22 ft / 2.20 m
- Average freeboard: 8.84 ft / 2.69 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113.8 %
Waterplane Area: 1,520 Square feet or 141 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 168 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 124 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.79
- Longitudinal: 8.61
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc Weight
40 tons sweeping gear and handling equipment
5 tons mine detecting ASDIC
5 tons Signaal M1946 surface search RDF set
15 tons growth margin

The new escort is based on the Zinnia but with a hedgehog ASW mortar in B position instead of a 37mm twin and an additional sonar, new machinery for greater speed and more fuel. Another big change is a brand new Cockerill designed twin automatic 90mm mount - think of this as Belgium's answer to the US Mk.33 3in mount or the British 3in/L70 twin mount. By the time these are completed in 1948 it should be around the right timeframe for such a mount. Uses the same L60 gun in production for the Netherlands.

Quoted

Spa Class, Belgium Escort laid down 1947

Displacement:
1,203 t light; 1,263 t standard; 1,546 t normal; 1,772 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
286.63 ft / 278.87 ft x 34.45 ft x 10.73 ft (normal load)
87.37 m / 85.00 m x 10.50 m x 3.27 m

Armament:
4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 1947 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1944 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1944 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.91" / 23.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.44lbs / 0.20kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 108 lbs / 49 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 450

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 22,500 shp / 16,785 Kw = 27.82 kts
Range 7,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 509 tons

Complement:
123 - 160

Cost:
£0.962 million / $3.848 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 15 tons, 1.0 %
Armour: 11 tons, 0.7 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 8 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 556 tons, 36.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 437 tons, 28.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 343 tons, 22.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 185 tons, 12.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
878 lbs / 398 Kg = 39.5 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 11.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.525
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.10 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m (17.22 ft / 5.25 m before break)
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.84 ft / 5.13 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 138.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 178.2 %
Waterplane Area: 6,550 Square feet or 608 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 157 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 3.74
- Overall: 0.61
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight
5 tons for Signaal M1946 surface search RDF set
20 tons for two ASDIC sets
22 tons for Hedgehog and ammunition
20 tons for 2x DC racks and 2x DCT for 36x DCs
8 tons for Hazemeyer IV mounts
8 tons for automatic 90mm mounts
50 tons for improved habitability
50 tons for growth

I'll probably build a couple of extra Herstal class vessels at the end of the production run during 1948 to serve as a diving tender and as a torpedo recovery vessel.

Belgium is now travelling further afield and its clear Belgium lacks the ships to really go far. Most of the ships are designed for European operations in terms of equipment and they are not optimised for training duties.
So following from experiences gained Belgium is looking to build a large training cruiser in 1948.
This design is based on the previous generation of light cruisers but with modern armament (Dutch 152mm and the new Cockerill 90mm) and still useful as a light cruiser. It is larger and overall a better ship, though by no means an outstanding design. Seakeeping for example is not great but will be improved with further tinkering. As ever, comments and suggestions are welcome.

Queen Juliana, Belgium Training Cruiser laid down 1948

Displacement:
5,391 t light; 5,632 t standard; 6,387 t normal; 6,990 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
550.41 ft / 541.34 ft x 54.13 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
167.77 m / 165.00 m x 16.50 m x 5.00 m

Armament:
4 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 100.97lbs / 45.80kg shells, 1944 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 1947 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1944 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.91" / 23.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.37lbs / 0.17kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 613 lbs / 278 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 60,000 shp / 44,760 Kw = 32.50 kts
Range 9,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,358 tons

Complement:
356 - 464

Cost:
£3.451 million / $13.806 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 82 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 970 tons, 15.2 %
- Belts: 367 tons, 5.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 94 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 501 tons, 7.9 %
- Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 1,466 tons, 23.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,573 tons, 40.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 996 tons, 15.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 4.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,333 lbs / 4,233 Kg = 87.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.465
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.66 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.93 ft / 7.60 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.54 ft / 5.65 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
- Stern: 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
- Average freeboard: 17.34 ft / 5.29 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 173.8 %
Waterplane Area: 19,669 Square feet or 1,827 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 419 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.27
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent


Misc Weight
37 tons for the 152mm turrets
32 tons for the 90mm mounts
12 tons for the Hazemeyer IV LAA mounts
15 tons for 3x RDF sets
15 tons for 2x RDF-directed gunnery directors
25 tons for air conditioning and habilitability
10 tons for educational fittings
40 tons for landing pad and provision for one light rotary-wing or seaplane
100 tons for accomodation for 50 cadets/midshipmen
14 tons for growth

Quoted

40 tons for landing pad and provision for one light rotary-wing or seaplane

To me that kinda reads as trying to land the seaplane on that landing pad. Must be a Belgian thing to do something like that.

My first reaction is that it is a rather elaborate vessel to train fifty cadets. How do you envision it fulfilling its training role?

The ship's crew would of course learn as they train in different areas and scenarios, the cadets and midshipmen are the junior men to be trained but other men aboard would be undergoing training on equipment and other duties.

The ship is expensive, no other Belgian ship has the 152mm 1944 Model either so its not an ideal choice for the main weapon. I may well pare this back to a couple of 125mm mounts or just have 90mm mounts. For flag showing though I feel it should be an impressive looking vessel. No good turning up in some rusty old sloop when across the harbour the Germans, French and British have shiny new large cruisers and 'proper' warships.

If that is your thinking, perhaps something more akin to the German Roon class training ship would suit Belgium's needs and pocket-book better. It is far less capable but costs far less. The Kriegsmarine has two specialist artillery school ships - the Brummer and Bremse - but they are of the Rock Doctor's design. However, they function in much the same way as you envision. They tend to spend their time in the Baltic and the North Sea due to my paranoia regarding their suitability for functioning in the open sea.

Is economy really what Belgium is looking for, though? It'd seem to me that with 5.5 factories, Belgium is "over-saturated" with naval tonnage for its reasonable needs, and so an "economical" solution like the Roon ought to be avoided.

Quoted from "Brockpaine"

Is economy really what Belgium is looking for, though? It'd seem to me that with 5.5 factories, Belgium is "over-saturated" with naval tonnage for its reasonable needs, and so an "economical" solution like the Roon ought to be avoided.

Well, I agree that the Belgian Navy seems to have more tonnage available that its reasonable needs might warrant. But I hate to advocate for a "tonnage sponge". It offends the economist in me. :D

We love sponges *goes to insert 18in guns*.

If you want it to be a proper Belgian sponge, you should build it out of concrete and not install engines. ;)

But seriously, the ship itself looks fine. I'd probably have set up three twin dual-purpose guns (125mm?) rather than two twin 152mm guns, but that's just my preference.

The thing is that the Queen Juliana could be used as a regular cruiser while the Roon would be pretty much useless with the lack of armor and speed. So even though it is more expensive, I think it might be more useful for 5.5 factory Belgium than for 31 factory Germany. But that is probably my opinion.

Quoted

If you want it to be a proper Belgian sponge, you should build it out of concrete and not install engines.

I disagree. Wood and sails is the proper Belgian way. (The Dutch joke being "Why didn't the Belgian Navy leave port when WW2 broke out? Because there was no wind")

Quoted

I'd probably have set up three twin dual-purpose guns (125mm?) rather than two twin 152mm guns, but that's just my preference.

Yes, that was something I wanted to say as well, especially considering the "no other Belgian ship has the 152mm 1944 Model either so its not an ideal choice for the main weapon" bit Hood mentioned.

Here is a revised version, much more traditional and armed with the only DP weapon Belgium currently possesses, the Australian Vickers 4.7in.
It is of note that this ship is actually heavier than the light cruisers Belgium possesses! The Wandelaar's being so small because of their puny machinery layout for a top speed of 24kts!

Another idea would be to build two new light CLs with the Dutch 152mm auto, one with additional training spaces and the other with some other goodies. Belgium certainly can afford it. Kirk's old oddities are just too... odd.


Queen Juliana, Belgium Training Cruiser laid down 1948

Displacement:
4,470 t light; 4,709 t standard; 5,420 t normal; 5,989 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
510.93 ft / 498.69 ft x 52.49 ft x 15.58 ft (normal load)
155.73 m / 152.00 m x 16.00 m x 4.75 m

Armament:
6 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (3x2 guns), 51.92lbs / 23.55kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 1947 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1944 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.91" / 23.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.37lbs / 0.17kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 521 lbs / 236 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.20" / 31 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 50,000 shp / 37,300 Kw = 31.58 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,280 tons

Complement:
315 - 410

Cost:
£2.868 million / $11.473 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 68 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 669 tons, 12.3 %
- Belts: 243 tons, 4.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 36 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 384 tons, 7.1 %
- Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 1,222 tons, 22.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,160 tons, 39.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 950 tons, 17.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 6.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,120 lbs / 3,683 Kg = 154.0 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.465
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.54 ft / 5.65 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
- Stern: 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
- Average freeboard: 17.45 ft / 5.32 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 175.5 %
Waterplane Area: 17,570 Square feet or 1,632 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 135 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 80 lbs/sq ft or 391 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.43
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent


Misc Weight
32 tons for the 90mm mounts
12 tons for the Hazemeyer IV LAA mounts
10 tons for 2x RDF sets
15 tons for 2x RDF-directed gunnery directors
25 tons for air conditioning and habilitability
26 tons for educational fittings and teaching spaces
200 tons for accomodation for 100 cadets/midshipmen
20 tons for growth

Quoted from "Hood"

Another idea would be to build two new light CLs with the Dutch 152mm auto, one with additional training spaces and the other with some other goodies. Belgium certainly can afford it.

I'd be interested in seeing more along that line...

Ask and you shall receive!

I was quite drawn to this concept, these are almost identical except one has 3x2 152mm and the other sacrifices that for a larger accommodation block aft.
The gun cruiser actually comes out lighter!


Wandelaar Replacement Cruiser-Gun, Belgium Light Cruiser laid down 1948

Displacement:
5,481 t light; 5,759 t standard; 6,524 t normal; 7,136 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
553.88 ft / 541.34 ft x 54.13 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
168.82 m / 165.00 m x 16.50 m x 5.00 m

Armament:
6 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (3x2 guns), 100.97lbs / 45.80kg shells, 1944 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 1947 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1944 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 0.91" / 23.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.37lbs / 0.17kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 818 lbs / 371 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 55,000 shp / 41,030 Kw = 31.63 kts
Range 9,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,376 tons

Complement:
362 - 471

Cost:
£3.517 million / $14.070 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 109 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 1,164 tons, 17.8 %
- Belts: 441 tons, 6.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 131 tons, 2.0 %
- Armour Deck: 578 tons, 8.9 %
- Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,344 tons, 20.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,645 tons, 40.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,043 tons, 16.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 219 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,140 lbs / 4,599 Kg = 94.6 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 13.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.475
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.63 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.90 ft / 8.20 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.54 ft / 5.65 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
- Stern: 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
- Average freeboard: 17.50 ft / 5.33 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.5 %
Waterplane Area: 19,844 Square feet or 1,844 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 427 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.26
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent


Misc Weight
55.5 tons for the 152mm turrets
32 tons for the 90mm mounts
16 tons for the Hazemeyer IV LAA mounts
15 tons for 3x RDF sets
15 tons for 2x RDF-directed gunnery directors
25 tons for CIC and command spaces
25 tons for air conditioning and habitability
35 tons for growth



Wandelaar Replacement T, Belgium Training Cruiser laid down 1948

Displacement:
5,515 t light; 5,759 t standard; 6,524 t normal; 7,136 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
553.88 ft / 541.34 ft x 54.13 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
168.82 m / 165.00 m x 16.50 m x 5.00 m

Armament:
4 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 100.97lbs / 45.80kg shells, 1944 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 1947 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1944 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 0.91" / 23.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.37lbs / 0.17kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 616 lbs / 280 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 55,000 shp / 41,030 Kw = 31.63 kts
Range 9,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,376 tons

Complement:
362 - 471

Cost:
£3.358 million / $13.434 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 83 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 1,129 tons, 17.3 %
- Belts: 441 tons, 6.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 95 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 578 tons, 8.9 %
- Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,344 tons, 20.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,574 tons, 39.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,010 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 385 tons, 5.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,201 lbs / 4,627 Kg = 95.2 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 13.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.21
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.475
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.63 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.90 ft / 8.20 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.54 ft / 5.65 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
- Stern: 15.91 ft / 4.85 m
- Average freeboard: 17.50 ft / 5.33 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.5 %
Waterplane Area: 19,844 Square feet or 1,844 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 415 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.26
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent


Misc Weight
37 tons for the 152mm mounts
32 tons for the 90mm mounts
16 tons for the Hazemyer IV LAA mounts
15 tons for 3x RDF sets
15 tons for 2x RDF-directed directors
25 tons for air conditioning and habitability
25 tons for educational fittings and teaching spaces
200 tons for accomodation for 50 cadets/ midshipmen
20 tons for growth

Good to see TT's on the second design, the cadets need to know how to handle tin fish.

I do note that the 152mm guns on the 6-gun version are DP while those on the 4-gun version are not. Is this a deliberate decision?

eltf177,
Good catch, there were a couple of minor errors in the report.
Switching from BL to DP makes no difference to the report. The torpedoes are actually also a mistake and I've removed them.
I could add a couple of triple mounts to the training ship and use some of the misc weight for the torpedoes but torpedo and Asdic training will be accomplished aboard the smaller Artevelde, recently refitted.

I'm forming a new fleet plan in mind.
These two cruisers to replace the current CL fleet and possibly King Albert too then from 1949-50 nine new destroyers. That would complete the refreshing of the fleet.

Something small for 1948, a new MTB. Based on the OTL P-6.

M1948 Class MTB
Displacement 56 tons (66.5 tons fl); 25.3 x 6.1 x 1.7m; 2x2 23mm FN-Madsen, 2x 533mm torpedo tubes, 8x DC; four 1,200hp Werkspoor M48MD diesels driving four shafts; 43kts; 1,000nm at 14 kts

The other crazy choice for the Belgian instead of subs is to join the Carrier Club.

This small carrier would be for ASW and fleet support and her airgroup would be unique in WW in being composed entirely of armed Gyrodynes like this:


To this end the carrier would have one large lift aft near the quarterdeck and no need for catapults etc. She would be fitted with sonar and radar to enable her to hunt various targets.

Wandelaar, Belgium Aircraft Carrier laid down 1948

Displacement:
8,994 t light; 9,305 t standard; 10,821 t normal; 12,034 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
578.93 ft / 557.74 ft x 82.02 ft x 16.08 ft (normal load)
176.46 m / 170.00 m x 25.00 m x 4.90 m

Armament:
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1944 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 0.91" / 23.0 mm guns (5x2 guns), 0.44lbs / 0.20kg shells, 1944 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 29 lbs / 13 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 5,000

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 223.10 ft / 68.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 62 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 65,000 shp / 48,490 Kw = 30.14 kts
Range 12,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,729 tons

Complement:
529 - 689

Cost:
£4.027 million / $16.107 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 1,470 tons, 13.6 %
- Belts: 281 tons, 2.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 8 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,171 tons, 10.8 %
- Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 1,588 tons, 14.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,911 tons, 36.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,827 tons, 16.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,021 tons, 18.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,348 lbs / 10,137 Kg = 14,460.2 x 1.5 " / 37 mm shells or 3.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.60 ft / 6.28 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 227.9 %
Waterplane Area: 32,146 Square feet or 2,986 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 162 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 93 lbs/sq ft or 455 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.33
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Class Names:

Belt armour is for box protection of ship's and aircraft magazines.

Misc Weight
600 tons for 24 aircraft
50 tons for 1x lift
500 tons for workshops and hangar equipment
500 tons for aircraft armament and stores
200 tons for command spaces
25 tons for RDF sets
20 tons for ASDIC
26 tons for Hazemeyer V mounts (8x 37mm, 4x 23mm)
200 tons for growth

How would this vessel operate with the other elements of the Belgian fleet? Or, more importantly, how would the other elements operate with it?