WesWorld

See: A Philippine Inquiry

Several suggestions having been made, I have decided to try putting together designs that might fulfill those suggestions. Here I’ve opted for a small flotilla cruiser – which would strengthen the light surface forces against a Chinese threat. I am not certain that I like it though. Anyone have comments?


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TBD, Philippine Light Cruiser laid down 1947

Displacement: 4,650 t light; 4,850 t standard; 5,393 t normal; 5,828 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

486.92 ft / 475.72 ft x 45.93 ft x 18.04 ft (normal load) [148.41 m / 145.00 m x 14.00 m x 5.50 m]

Armament:

6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1947 Model Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1947 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, all amidships
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1947 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 641 lbs / 291 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 360.89 ft / 110.00 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 117 % of normal length

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 60,755 shp / 45,323 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 7,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 978 tons

Complement: 314 - 409

Cost: £3.201 million / $12.805 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 80 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 650 tons, 12.1 %
- Belts: 331 tons, 6.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 36 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 270 tons, 5.0 %
- Conning Tower: 13 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,501 tons, 27.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,319 tons, 43.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 743 tons, 13.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 6,280 lbs / 2,848 Kg = 61.0 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 14.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has rise forward of midbreak and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.479
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.36 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.88 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m (14.76 ft / 4.50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 19.10 ft / 5.82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.8 %
Waterplane Area: 14,846 Square feet or 1,379 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 405 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 2.67
- Overall: 1.05
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Looks a bit too much like a Super Destroyer Flotilla Leader to me.

Not sold on the manually loaded 5.9in guns with hoists (I'm assuming an shielded mount rather than fully enclosed?), might have low rate of fire. The armour scheme might be good against splinters and smaller calibre hits, but if your going toe to toe with bigger ships you might be left wanting there.
Are the torpedoes abreast or centreline?

Against large DDs and older light cruisers it might make some kind of sense, but I'm not really seeing the cost effectiveness of these. For the price of two of these you could almost get four Darings and they could dish out some serious punishment too, plus all the ASW goodies on offer.

Thank you for pointing out a couple of design errors on my part. The main armament ought to be breech-loaders in full turrets – I’ve updated the Springsharp to reflect that. I know that most of the rest of the world has gone to automatic guns but I envision that the Philippines hasn’t reached that level of technology yet. The torpedo armament would be two quads on either beam rather than on the centerline.

I would not expect these sort of ships to go head-to-head with larger cruisers but to back up the destroyer flotillas. The Philippines still sees China as its principal adversary and the latest information on the state of the Chinese Navy has it filled with antique cruisers and destroyers – and such a flotilla cruiser might have sufficient quality to offset Chinese numerical superiority. Even so, I am not totally sold on the design or the design concept it represents.

As for building more destroyers? By 1947 the Philippines will have more than six dozen built or building, most within the last seven years. I will probably continue building some destroyers of a new design but I am trying to consider other options.

Another idea I have toyed with is construction of a specialized training vessel for naval cadets. Given the size of the Philippine Navy and the overall lack of older vessels, an argument could be made for constructing one. For the moment I would have to explain that junior officers and petty officers are making do with a lot of hands-on training on vessels in active service.

Any reactions?

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TBD, Philippine Sloop/Training Ship laid down 1947

Displacement: 1,600 t light; 1,670 t standard; 1,903 t normal; 2,089 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

338.58 ft / 328.08 ft x 37.73 ft x 10.50 ft (normal load) [103.20 m / 100.00 m x 11.50 m x 3.20 m]

Armament:

4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1947 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1947 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1947 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 279 lbs / 126 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10,687 shp / 7,973 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 419 tons

Complement: 143 - 187

Cost: £0.889 million / $3.556 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 35 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 177 tons, 9.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 158 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 264 tons, 13.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 924 tons, 48.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 303 tons, 15.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 10.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 4,125 lbs / 1,871 Kg = 61.5 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.40

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has low quarterdeck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.513
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.70: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 6.56 ft / 2.00 m (14.76 ft / 4.50 m before break)
- Stern: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Average freeboard: 14.65 ft / 4.47 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 174.7 %
Waterplane Area: 8,678 Square feet or 806 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 161 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 315 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 2.82
- Overall: 1.10
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight:

Extra accommodation for cadets: 80 tons
Classroom space for cadets: 50 tons
Recreation space: 50 tons
Tropicalization: 20 tons

Looks ok to me.

Not sure I'd bother with the deck armour, but overall looks a nice little unit and suitable for escort use in wartime too.

Another idea I thought of was minesweepers if you feel there is a need.

Interesting that you should mention minecraft. While the Philippine Navy has sixteen modern minesweeper/escorts, it does not have much in the way of minelayers. The existing craft are old, quite small, and of little capacity. So I've drawn up a small minelayer design that I suspect will be built.

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TBD, Philippine Coastal Minelayer laid down 1947

Displacement: 474 t light; 499 t standard; 590 t normal; 663 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

203.32 ft / 196.85 ft x 24.61 ft x 8.20 ft (normal load) [61.97 m / 60.00 m x 7.50 m x 2.50 m]

Armament:

4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1947 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1947 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 25 lbs / 11 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 900

Armour:

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 3,630 shp / 2,708 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 4,800nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 163 tons

Complement: 59 - 77

Cost: £0.231 million / $0.925 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 3 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 5 tons, 0.8 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 3 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 90 tons, 15.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 286 tons, 48.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 116 tons, 19.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 15.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 1,210 lbs / 549 Kg = 214.2 x 2.2 " / 57 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.80

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.520
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 32
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.82 ft / 0.25 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
- Quarterdeck (35 %): 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
- Stern: 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
- Average freeboard: 12.32 ft / 3.76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.8 %
Waterplane Area: 3,286 Square feet or 305 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 197 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 41 lbs/sq ft or 198 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.01
- Longitudinal: 7.60
- Overall: 1.24
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight:

Provision for One-Hundred 500 kg sea mines - 50 tons
Provision for two mine rails @ 15 tons each - 30 tons
Tropicalization - 10 tons

Looking over the Philippine Navy, the current number of auxiliaries seems small compared to the overall size of the fleet. So, I am contemplating perhaps a pair of small tankers to replace the one oiler presently in service and now getting on to twenty years old.

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TBD, Philippine Replenishment Tanker laid down 1947

Displacement: 1,975 t light; 2,111 t standard; 6,690 t normal; 10,353 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

362.12 ft / 355.97 ft x 45.93 ft x 20.18 ft (normal load) [110.38 m / 108.50 m x 14.00 m x 6.15 m]

Armament:

2 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1947 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount on centreline aft
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1947 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 3 lbs / 1 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 1,200

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 1 shaft, 9,005 shp / 6,718 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 51,900nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,242 tons

Complement: 369 - 480

Cost: £0.732 million / $2.926 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 222 tons, 3.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,452 tons, 21.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,715 tons, 70.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 4.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 45,685 lbs / 20,722 Kg = 34,922.2 x 1.4 " / 35 mm shells or 10.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.67
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 10.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.710
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.75: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m (14.76 ft / 4.50 m before break)
- Stern: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 17.07 ft / 5.20 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 17.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.1 %
Waterplane Area: 13,149 Square feet or 1,222 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 894 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 314 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 2.24
- Overall: 1.03
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Low stowed cargo simmed as additional bunkers. Normal radius is 6,000 nm at 15 knots.

Breakdown of low stowed cargo: 2,000 tons diesel oil, 1,880 tons bunker fuel oil, 150 tons aviation spirit

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight:

120 tons reserved for deck gear and underway replenishment equipment
90 tons reserved for provisions and other stores
80 tons reserved for munitions
10 tons reserved for navigational radar

A cost-effective alternative to the Philippine Navy’s need for auxiliaries would be to pursue conversion of mercantile tonnage. Here is a proposal for a multi-purpose fleet support ship based on the Isla de Mindanao cargoliner.

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TBD, Philippine Fleet Support Ship laid down 1943

Displacement: 6,568 t light; 6,888 t standard; 15,801 t normal; 22,932 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

457.17 ft / 440.03 ft x 59.81 ft x 30.02 ft (normal load) [139.35 m / 134.12 m x 18.23 m x 9.15 m]

Armament:

8 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1947 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
Weight of broadside 10 lbs / 5 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 600

Armour:

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 19,432 shp / 14,497 Kw = 19.50 kts
Range 51,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 16,044 tons

Complement: 704 - 916

Cost: £1.972 million / $7.887 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 1 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 3 tons, 0.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 3 tons, 0.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 502 tons, 3.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,062 tons, 19.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 9,233 tons, 58.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3,000 tons, 19.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 43,909 lbs / 19,917 Kg = 33,564.4 x 1.4 " / 35 mm shells or 6.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 94 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.87

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.700
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.36: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.98 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.02 ft / 1.53 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.02 ft / 9.15 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.50 ft / 5.64 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.55 ft / 5.35 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.50 ft / 5.64 m
- Stern: 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Average freeboard: 19.16 ft / 5.84 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 32.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.9 %
Waterplane Area: 21,094 Square feet or 1,960 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 393 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 425 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 2.06
- Overall: 1.04
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Notes:

True range 12,000 nm on bunkers of 3,884 tons. Additional bunkers used to sim low-stowed cargo of 5,000 tons

Fuel oil 1,500 tons; Diesel oil 1.500 tons; Fresh water 500 tons; Dry stores 1,500 tons; total 5,000 tons

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight:

Cranes and heavy handling equipment: 350 tons
Accommodation for service personnel: 800 tons
Electrical shop: 300 tons
Metalsmithing shop: 300 tons
Engine maintenance shop: 300 tons
Ordnance maintenance shop: 300 tons
Boat maintenance shop: 300 tons
Water distillation equipment: 150 tons
Enhanced medical facilities: 200 tons

Cost for conversion: 1,642 tons

Time for conversion: 117 days

Quoted from "BruceDuncan"

A cost-effective alternative...

Er, it seems to me that if you're looking for something to spend your tonnage on, then seeking out 'cost-effective alternatives' is counterproductive... ?(

Quoted from "Brockpaine"

Quoted from "BruceDuncan"

A cost-effective alternative...

Er, it seems to me that if you're looking for something to spend your tonnage on, then seeking out 'cost-effective alternatives' is counterproductive... ?(

I am not so much just looking for a "tonnage sponge" as I am looking at alternatives that make sense and are appropriate for the Philippine situation at the moment. The 26,000 tons battlecruiser design I worked up would soak up any excess tonnage available between now and the end of the game, but I don't think a pair or trio of them is appropriate.

This design is inspired by Brock’s Long Dao for Indochina; the Philippine Navy has a number of tenders that ought to be replaced, and this is a likely candidate design. At less than 200 tons a quarter they are also economical.


TBD, Philippine Fleet Support Ship laid down 1947

Displacement: 750 t light; 770 t standard; 886 t normal; 978 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

234.05 ft / 229.66 ft x 31.17 ft x 7.22 ft (normal load) [71.34 m / 70.00 m x 9.50 m x 2.20 m]

Armament:

4 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1947 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 5 lbs / 2 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 600

Armour:

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 1 shaft, 1,487 shp / 1,109 Kw = 15.00 kts
Range 11,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 209 tons

Complement: 80 - 105

Cost: £0.232 million / $0.930 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 1 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 1 tons, 0.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 37 tons, 4.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 312 tons, 35.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 135 tons, 15.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 45.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 2,076 lbs / 942 Kg = 1,587.3 x 1.4 " / 35 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.37: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 32
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 13.29 ft / 4.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Stern: 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Average freeboard: 11.83 ft / 3.61 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 64.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.4 %
Waterplane Area: 5,121 Square feet or 476 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 185 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 185 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 2.43
- Overall: 1.02
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Actual radius 3,000 nm on bunkers of 35 tons; remaining 80 tons available to refuel supported craft.

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight

Deck gear (cranes, derricks, winches) - 25 tons
Accommodation space for work crews - 120 tons
Distilling plant - 15 tons
Workshop space - 120 tons
Tropicalization - 20 tons
Consumable stores - 100 tons

The long-term development of the Southern Provinces requires the movement of considerable amounts of cargo and equipment, much of it outsized. The design of the Cruzado has been proposed to address this need. The historical design inspiration can be found here:

Your thoughts and comments are welcome.

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Cruzado, Philippine Logistics Ship laid down 1947

Displacement: 1,135 t light; 1,187 t standard; 2,350 t normal; 3,281 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

200.12 ft / 196.16 ft x 49.87 ft x 12.14 ft (normal load) [61.00 m / 59.79 m x 15.20 m x 3.70 m]

Armament:

4 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1947 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 5 lbs / 2 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 1,500

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 657 shp / 490 Kw = 10.00 kts
Range 79,500nm at 9.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,094 tons

Complement: 168 - 219

Cost: £0.310 million / $1.238 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 1 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 16 tons, 0.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 518 tons, 22.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,215 tons, 51.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 25.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 8,716 lbs / 3,953 Kg = 6,662.6 x 1.4 " / 35 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.693
Length to Beam Ratio: 3.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Forecastle (10 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m (10.66 ft / 3.25 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Quarterdeck (25 %): 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Stern: 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Average freeboard: 10.97 ft / 3.35 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 31.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.2 %
Waterplane Area: 7,789 Square feet or 724 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 369 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 51 lbs/sq ft or 247 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.60
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Cargo simmed as additional bunkers. Actual radius is 5,000 nm on bunkers of 89 tons; remaining represents 1,000 tons of cargo stowed below deck.

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight:

Provision for vehicles on deck - 200 tons
Provision for cargo handling gear - 200 tons
Provision for vehicle ramps - 200 tons

Hm, looks very interesting!

Quoted from "Brockpaine"

Hm, looks very interesting!

I'm not certain how true to the inspiration I was with the freeboard, and fiddling the weights. There could be better way to do it, but you're quite correct - I found the idea fascinating.

Not going for 6 shafts like the historical vessel?

Looking at your numbers, I would say that you base the "cargo stowed below deck" on the "Fuel, ammunition & stores" value in the "Distribution of weights at normal displacement". This is the right way to do it (all your cargo stuff should be part of the normal displacement since all miscellaneous weights (which normally should be used for cargo) is always part of the normal displacement) but fuel works differently compared to miscellaneous weights so your full load displacement is actually based on the 79,500nm at 9.00 kts range and not the 5,000 nm at 9.00 kts range. Even though it does not have any influence on the design, the actual full load displacement of ~2500-2600 tons means that it does not lie as deep in the water as a similar vessel with a full load displacement of almost 3300 tons.

I use the ship's bunker the same way to sim cargo as you but I have had a few sims where with the large amount of fuel in the sim and the high (unaltered) full load displacement value, I went to check the freeboard at that displacement and found out that there would barely be anything left of the ship sticking above the water... add a few gentle 3 foot waves and I guess that that can be quite problematic for such a design.

Okay, what would you suggest that should be done differently here? This not your normal warship or merchantman, and any input is worth considering.

Not much. Using 6 shafts like the historical one for maneuverability might be one thing although that would depend on how important you find that for your ship. The other is quite simple. Load your sim, set the range to the actual range of the ship (5000nm@9kt) and write down the full load displacement SS gives you with that range, edit your sim report with 'actual full load displacement =' and then the value that SS gave you (or something like that). It is just a minor thing to do but to me it will make the sim look more correct with the way you simmed it.

Quoted from "Rooijen10"

Not much. Using 6 shafts like the historical one for maneuverability might be one thing although that would depend on how important you find that for your ship. The other is quite simple. Load your sim, set the range to the actual range of the ship (5000nm@9kt) and write down the full load displacement SS gives you with that range, edit your sim report with 'actual full load displacement =' and then the value that SS gave you (or something like that). It is just a minor thing to do but to me it will make the sim look more correct with the way you simmed it.

That seems reasonable enough, as long as the notes to that effect are clear.

Walter, if I understand your suggestion correctly, the result would give me this:

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Cruzado, Philippine Logistics Ship laid down 1947

Displacement:
1,136 t light; 1,187 t standard; 2,351 t normal; 3,282 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
200.12 ft / 196.16 ft x 49.87 ft x 12.14 ft (normal load)
61.00 m / 59.79 m x 15.20 m x 3.70 m

Armament:
4 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1947 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 5 lbs / 2 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 1,500

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 6 shafts, 658 shp / 491 Kw = 10.00 kts
Range 79,500nm at 9.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,095 tons

Complement:
168 - 219

Cost:
£0.310 million / $1.239 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 16 tons, 0.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 519 tons, 22.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,215 tons, 51.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 25.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,733 lbs / 3,961 Kg = 6,675.6 x 1.4 " / 35 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.693
Length to Beam Ratio: 3.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Forecastle (10 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m (10.66 ft / 3.25 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Quarterdeck (25 %): 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Stern: 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Average freeboard: 10.97 ft / 3.35 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 31.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.2 %
Waterplane Area: 7,792 Square feet or 724 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 369 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 51 lbs/sq ft or 248 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.61
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Cargo simmed as additional bunkers. Actual radius is 5,000 nm on bunkers of 89 tons; remaining represents 1,000 tons of cargo stowed below deck.

Actual full load displacement = 2,419 tons based upon radius of 5,000 nm

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight:

Provision for vehicles on deck - 200 tons
Provision for cargo handling gear - 200 tons
Provision for vehicle ramps - 200 tons