WesWorld

Don Juan d'Austria, Iberia BB laid down 1930

Displacement:
39,754 t light; 41,998 t standard; 45,120 t normal; 47,436 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
907.85 ft / 853.02 ft x 104.99 ft x 32.48 ft (normal load)
276.71 m / 260.00 m x 32.00 m x 9.90 m

Armament:
8 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,873.93lbs / 850.00kg shells, 1929 Model
Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (8x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1921 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1930 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 15,866 lbs / 7,197 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 11.98 ft / 3.65 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.5" / 420 mm 11.0" / 280 mm 15.0" / 380 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 15.75" / 400 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 190,715 shp / 142,273 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 5,618 tons)

Complement:
1,547 - 2,012

Cost:
£15.471 million / $61.884 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,785 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 13,855 tons, 30.7 %
- Belts: 3,602 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 4,172 tons, 9.2 %
- Armour Deck: 5,648 tons, 12.5 %
- Conning Tower: 432 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 5,779 tons, 12.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,136 tons, 40.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,365 tons, 11.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
60,694 lbs / 27,530 Kg = 36.3 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 8.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 2.0 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.543
Sharpness coefficient: 0.37
'Natural speed' for length: 33.72 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45.00 degrees
Stern angle (Positive = stern overhangs aft): 40.00 degrees
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Stern: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Average freeboard: 24.89 ft / 7.59 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 188.8 %
Waterplane Area: 64,627 Square feet or 6,004 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 200 lbs/sq ft or 978 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.22
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Warning: Gun calibre too high for QF, AA or DP gun

"Warning: Gun calibre too high for QF, AA or DP gun"

I assume it's referring to the main armament?

Looks like a good design. FINK is taking notes.

oops, committed a major bubu ...

Don Juan d'Austria, Iberia BB laid down 1930

Displacement:
39,754 t light; 41,998 t standard; 45,120 t normal; 47,436 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
907.85 ft / 853.02 ft x 104.99 ft x 32.48 ft (normal load)
276.71 m / 260.00 m x 32.00 m x 9.90 m

Armament:
8 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,873.93lbs / 850.00kg shells, 1929 Model
Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (8x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1921 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1930 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 15,866 lbs / 7,197 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 493.77 ft / 150.50 m 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 89 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.38" / 35 mm 493.77 ft / 150.50 m 29.53 ft / 9.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 11.0" / 280 mm 15.0" / 380 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 15.75" / 400 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 169,621 shp / 126,537 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 5,618 tons)

Complement:
1,547 - 2,012

Cost:
£15.097 million / $60.387 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,785 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 14,749 tons, 32.7 %
- Belts: 3,898 tons, 8.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 743 tons, 1.6 %
- Armament: 4,027 tons, 8.9 %
- Armour Deck: 5,648 tons, 12.5 %
- Conning Tower: 432 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 5,140 tons, 11.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,880 tons, 39.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,365 tons, 11.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
51,250 lbs / 23,247 Kg = 30.6 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 6.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.543
Sharpness coefficient: 0.37
'Natural speed' for length: 33.72 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45.00 degrees
Stern angle (Positive = stern overhangs aft): 40.00 degrees
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Stern: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Average freeboard: 23.94 ft / 7.30 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 178.7 %
Waterplane Area: 64,627 Square feet or 6,004 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 199 lbs/sq ft or 972 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.14
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Warning: Gun calibre too high for QF, AA or DP gun

A quick-firing gun is one that has both shell and propellant charge together as one object. For 380mm guns this is impossible as you'd have a massive round to load.

Quick-firing guns are worthwhile up to around 110mm in calibre. The RN 4.5" that we all know and love, was quick-firing but the round was later split up into 2 different pieces because the total round weight was too high.

Bernhard, I don't know if you got my email. But for a 57mm semi-automatic gun, 1890 would be the date they existed. Thats for a gun capable of 20rpm.

BuBu take 2!!

Them's BIG bullets!!

yep gavin, thanks I got that mail. OK, I wasn't sure of terminology here. Breyer refers to the Bismarck's main guns as quickfiring. Hoo, can you shed some light?

I agree with you, in german terminology quick-firing gun would be the term to choose for WW1+ guns. However, I know that Ian takes them as "breech loader" - which is not wrong, though.

Maybe Breyer meant "fast-firing" and not "quick-firing"? However Bismarck did use semi-fixed ammunition I seem to remember.

the terminology seems to be somewhat different, maybe something about how the breech is made?

I think the Bismarck's guns were called QF because the main charge was brass cased.

According to John Campbell's book "Naval Weapons of World War II" SK meant both Shiffskanone or ship's gun or Schelladekanone or QF gun. The Bismarck's guns were 38cm SKC/34.

There are multiple definitions of QF
- By one definition they were not QF guns in that they did not have combined shell and charge.
- They also did not have one piece brass cased charges, they had a two piece charge. The main charge was brass cased but I don't know about the fore charge.
- They were not loaded in a single action, the shell was loaded then the charges, although the charges were loaded in one action.

Ian

So by springsharp definition a QF gun is a gun using fixed ammunition which is loaded in a single action?

Does it make any difference (e.g. weight) if QF-gun or breech loader is chosen?

Regards,

HoOmAn

Don Fernando, Iberian Battleship laid down 1930

Displacement:
29,334 t light; 31,256 t standard; 33,697 t normal; 35,514 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
748.03 ft / 711.94 ft x 98.43 ft x 29.53 ft (normal load)
228.00 m / 217.00 m x 30.00 m x 9.00 m

Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,687.50lbs / 765.44kg shells, 1930 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (8x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1921 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1920 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 14,705 lbs / 6,670 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 406.82 ft / 124.00 m 12.17 ft / 3.71 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.38" / 35 mm 406.82 ft / 124.00 m 29.53 ft / 9.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 12.6" / 320 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 92,000 shp / 68,632 Kw = 27.06 kts
Range 9,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 4,392 tons)

Complement:
1,243 - 1,616

Cost:
£12.382 million / $49.529 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,838 tons, 5.5 %
Armour: 11,180 tons, 33.2 %
- Belts: 3,281 tons, 9.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 612 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 2,985 tons, 8.9 %
- Armour Deck: 4,239 tons, 12.6 %
- Conning Tower: 62 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 2,788 tons, 8.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,403 tons, 39.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,363 tons, 12.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
38,916 lbs / 17,652 Kg = 23.1 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.570
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.68 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (19 %): 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
- Mid (75 %): 22.64 ft / 6.90 m (16.08 ft / 4.90 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (19 %): 16.08 ft / 4.90 m
- Stern: 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Average freeboard: 21.60 ft / 6.58 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163.8 %
Waterplane Area: 48,495 Square feet or 4,505 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 194 lbs/sq ft or 946 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.31
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

belt 12° inclined

or this?

Don Fernando, Iberian Battleship laid down 1930

Displacement:
29,028 t light; 31,312 t standard; 33,756 t normal; 35,575 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
748.03 ft / 711.94 ft x 98.43 ft x 29.53 ft (normal load)
228.00 m / 217.00 m x 30.00 m x 9.00 m

Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,204.62lbs / 1,000.00kg shells, 1930 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (8x2 guns), 77.16lbs / 35.00kg shells, 1921 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1920 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 19,004 lbs / 8,620 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 476.71 ft / 145.30 m 12.17 ft / 3.71 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.18" / 30 mm 476.71 ft / 145.30 m 27.43 ft / 8.36 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm

- Armour deck: 4.33" / 110 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 92,136 shp / 68,734 Kw = 27.06 kts
Range 9,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 4,398 tons)

Complement:
1,244 - 1,618

Cost:
£12.340 million / $49.360 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,838 tons, 5.4 %
Armour: 9,989 tons, 29.6 %
- Belts: 2,936 tons, 8.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 571 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 2,530 tons, 7.5 %
- Armour Deck: 3,890 tons, 11.5 %
- Conning Tower: 62 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 2,792 tons, 8.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,283 tons, 42.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,728 tons, 14.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,447 lbs / 14,718 Kg = 19.2 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.85
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.571
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.68 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (19 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Mid (75 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m (16.08 ft / 4.90 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (19 %): 16.08 ft / 4.90 m
- Stern: 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Average freeboard: 21.38 ft / 6.52 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.6 %
Waterplane Area: 48,549 Square feet or 4,510 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 207 lbs/sq ft or 1,010 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.37
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

belt 12° inclined

so a 25% increase in shell volume results in a 17% increase in space used - that would imply that 68% of the armoured volume is heavy magazines and ammo lifts?

Quoted

so a 25% increase in shell volume results in a 17% increase in space used - that would imply that 68% of the armoured volume is heavy magazines and ammo lifts?

Oops bug fix to come see Warships1 discussion

Ian