WesWorld

I've started planning what ships should be procured for laying down in 1947 and beyond.

There are two upcoming needs that must be met. The Mendoza Class destroyers and the P Class submarines are approaching 15 years old and will need replacing from 1948 onwards.

Submarine Requirements
Lacking sufficient design experience to design, the Naval Staff are seeking a foreign design for a fleet submarine.

The Operational -Tactical Requirement (OTR) to be issued in Q1/46 is open to bidding from all nations wishing to tender a design.
Size: The hull size may be larger than the current P Class [i.e. the Type 0 restriction is lifted]
Armament: A minimum battery of six 533mm torpedo tubes in the bows with space for at least 12 torpedoes and ideally 16-18. Stern tubes are not necessary. Gun armament to consist of a single or twin 20mm mount. A medium-calibre deck gun if offered should be of 100mm calibre, but this is not a mandatory requirement and if fitted should be mounted so that the overall underwater performance is not unduly compromised.
Machinery: Diesel and battery powerplant. There is no favoured engine supplier. Twin screw preferred.
Performance: The minimum surfaced speed is 17.5kts, the minimum submerged speed is 12kts. Bids with high sustainable submerged speeds are favourable. Range should be 7,500nm surfaced and underwater range at a cruising speed should be optimal. Operational depth should be 150-160m.
Equipment: Search and attack periscopes, surface-search RDF set on retractable mast, passive hydrophone array in the forward hull. An active ASDIC-type set may also be offered. A retractable air-breathing system should be fitted for submerged diesel running [snorkel].
Special Features: Effective streamlining of hull and conning tower to reduce underwater drag to minimum possible. All modern techniques should be explored in the design.
Cost: No more than 1,700 tons light tonnage.
Order: At least five and possibly six vessels will be purchased, home construction for at least two hulls may be desired, to be clarified during negotiations. Purchase of plans is a mandatory condition. Construction and payment could begin as soon as Q4/46.

Destroyer Requirements
Seeing the most likely outcome that Argentina will design and build its own class of fleet destroyers with experience gained since 1933 on three different designs, the main need is to plan what equipment is required for the future fleet destroyer to accomplish its varied roles. Speculative tenders, however, are not discouraged.

Tenders are sought for modern dual-purpose and automatic loading guns to equip the main battery and the associated fire-control systems.
Tenders are sought for modern anti-submarine weaponry, especially mortar-style devices that reduce the limitations imposed by using depth-charges and their associated fire-control systems.

In response to Argentine requirements, Deschimag tenders the following:

Deschimag Export Design, German Destroyer laid down 1947

Displacement: 2,150 t light; 2,361 t standard; 2,595 t normal; 2,783 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

409.37 ft / 393.70 ft x 39.37 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load) [124.78 m / 120.00 m x 12.00 m x 4.00 m]

Armament:

4 - 5.04" / 128 mm guns (2x2 guns), 63.99lbs / 29.03kg shells, 1947 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 2.17" / 55.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 5.08lbs / 2.30kg shells, 1945 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1944 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 298 lbs / 135 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 900
5 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

Conning tower: 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 41,071 shp / 30,639 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 422 tons

Complement: 181 - 236

Cost: £1.808 million / $7.230 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 37 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 25 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 19 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,015 tons, 39.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 943 tons, 36.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 445 tons, 17.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 5.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 1,344 lbs / 610 Kg = 21.0 x 5.0 " / 128 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has rise forward of midbreak and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.447
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.79 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 28.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.29 ft / 7.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.98 ft / 6.70 m (14.44 ft / 4.40 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Stern: 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Average freeboard: 18.49 ft / 5.64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 148.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.5 %
Waterplane Area: 10,240 Square feet or 951 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 45 lbs/sq ft or 222 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.60
- Longitudinal: 2.91
- Overall: 0.70
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Reserved for air warning radar - 25 tons
Reserved for surface search radar - 25 tons
Reserved for fire control radar - 25 tons
Reserved for AS detection equipment - 20 tons
Reserved for Ahead-Thrown AS Weapon - 15 tons
Reserved for AS outfit including DC and K-guns - 20 tons

Ahead-thrown AS weapon - derived from the Nebelwerfer - is mounted in B position before the bridge, and is trainable.

To me, seaboat rating of the destroyer is higher than necessary. Also some hullstrength left to use.


I looked a few times at the sub requirements but to get there, I would have to adopt a more unrealistic Australian Hamburger d:b ratio which I don't like so I gave up.

... on the other hand, maybe I should do just that and try to mess around with the lower limits of the requirement. After all, we sim the submarine "in awash condition, just about to go under" meaning that neither the speed nor the range we enter are the actual surface speed and range.

It's an ambitious specification but the Naval Staff would like to see what is possible, so all tenders will be accepted and whatever seems closest will probably suffice.

The main problem is with the really ambitious operational depth requirement and applying that to SS. That is a minimum hull strength requirement of 4.92.

Something here although I do not like it. With what I have figured out, I prefer a d:b of over 0.8, preferably between 0.85 and 1.00 although SS does not really allow that when using the unrealistic location of miscellaneous weights for the ballast.

Two sims. The first is the one how it is supposed to be simmed according to the springstyle notes with 310 tons for ballast (roughly 1/6) and 50 tons for the various other things (although 50 tons is probably not enough). For the second sim, I subtracted the 310 tons ballast from the normal displacement by altering the depth of the sub in order to get the hull to a surfaced state. With this sim I calculated how much hp is required for a surface speed of 17.5 knots (=3556 hp) and how much bunker is required for a 7,500 nm range at 10 knots (= 198 tons). Once that is done, I use that power and bunkerage weight to determine the speed and range of the first sim which means that the 16.97 knots speed and 6,550nm at 10 kts range translates to a surface speed and range of 17.5 knots and 7,500 nm at 10 knots. So that is pretty much the absolute minimum of this particular design when it comes to speed and range.

Sink, Argie Submarine laid down 1947

Displacement:
1,698 t light; 1,735 t standard; 1,845 t normal; 1,933 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
230.00 ft / 230.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
70.10 m / 70.10 m x 9.14 m x 6.10 m

Armament:
2 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1947 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 1,500
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 3,556 shp / 2,653 Kw = 16.97 kts
Range 6,550nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 198 tons

Complement:
140 - 183

Cost:
£0.522 million / $2.088 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0%
Machinery: 88 tons, 4.8%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,250 tons, 67.7%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 147 tons, 8.0%
Miscellaneous weights: 360 tons, 19.5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,603 lbs / 727 Kg = 6,566.9 x 0.8 " / 20 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.468
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Mid (50%): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Stern: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60.1%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0.0%
Waterplane Area: 4,468 Square feet or 415 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 344%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 881 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 4.34
- Longitudinal: 4.35
- Overall: 4.34
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability



Sink, Argie Submarine laid down 1947

Displacement:
1,401 t light; 1,433 t standard; 1,543 t normal; 1,631 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
230.00 ft / 230.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 16.72 ft (normal load)
70.10 m / 70.10 m x 9.14 m x 5.10 m

Armament:
2 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1947 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 1,500
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 3,556 shp / 2,653 Kw = 17.50 kts
Range 7,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 198 tons

Complement:
122 - 159

Cost:
£0.447 million / $1.786 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0%
Machinery: 88 tons, 5.7%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 954 tons, 61.8%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 141 tons, 9.2%
Miscellaneous weights: 360 tons, 23.3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,131 lbs / 513 Kg = 4,631.7 x 0.8 " / 20 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.468
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Mid (50%): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Stern: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.2%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0.0%
Waterplane Area: 4,468 Square feet or 415 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 288%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 150 lbs/sq ft or 733 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 3.93
- Longitudinal: 2.78
- Overall: 3.03
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

ASMAR proposes an export variant of the Janequeo-class submarines building in 1945 for the Armada de Chile.

Quoted

Janequeo-class Submarine
Date: 1945
Type: Oceanic
Length: 95.0m
Beam: 8.8m
Draft: 5.7m
Crush depth: 317.5m
Light Displacement 1650t
Loaded Displacement 2054t
Full Displacement 2383t
wt fuel&batts: 680t
Reserve buoyancy: 14%

Armament:
- 8 x 533mm (6x bow, 2x stern)
- 24 tons for mines or reload torpedoes
ElecHP: 4725hp
DieselHP: 6750hp
Speed:
- Max Surf Speed: 18.8 knots
- Max Sub Speed: 15.5 knots
Range:
- Surfaced: 18,561nm@10 knots
- Submerged: 201nm@6 knots / 30nm@12 knots
Tons Oil: 380.0t
Tons Battery: 300.0t
Miscellaneous Weight: 69 tons

Crew: 65

Something slightly different and something I like a bit more when it comes to the d:b as I roughly based that on the wiki linedrawing of the Type XXI.

Sink Argie Submarine
Date: 1947
Type: Oceanic
Length: 78.0m
Beam: 7.25m
Draft: 8.0m
Crush depth: 317.5m
Light Displacement 1696t
Loaded Displacement 2132t
Full Displacement 2262t
wt fuel&batts: 650t
Reserve buoyancy: 6%

Armament:
- 6 x 533mm (bow)
- 36 tons for mines or reload torpedoes
ElecHP: 3500hp
DieselHP: 7000hp
Speed:
- Max Surf Speed: 18.1 knots
- Max Sub Speed: 14.2 knots
Range:
- Surfaced: 16,897nm@10 knots, 7,510nm@15 knots
- Submerged: 258nm@5 knots, 45nm@10 knots
Tons Oil: 400.0t
Tons Battery: 250.0t
Miscellaneous Weight: 180 tons

Crew: 68


18 Type 3 torpedoes reloads (= 36 tons for mines or reload torpedoes)

23 tons for electric torpedo reloading system
10 tons for Ninjatousaya System
50 tons for sonar, hydrophones and radar
15 tons for yatai mobile food stall (well, mobile since the sub moves around)
20 tons for pachinko parlor
15 tons for karaoke facilities + Kobe Cola vending machines
20 tons for officer's lounge
17 tons for air condition system
2 tons for deep freeze unit
8 tons for various

I think the Japanese designers have been over-generous with the luxury features! We might need a sombrero stand, corned-beef stores, guitar stands and an open fireplace though.

On a serious note, is the 180 tons misc weight to make the sim work or could that be trimmed a little?

Quoted

On a serious note, is the 180 tons misc weight to make the sim work or could that be trimmed a little?

Although it is not the case now, I guess the 180 tons can be arranged for the sim to work.

Altered it slightly to remove the miscellaneous silliness as well as to get the reserve buoyancy up a bit and add the 20mm guns which I forgot in the original...

Sink Argie Submarine
Date: 1947
Type: Oceanic
Length: 78.0m
Beam: 7.25m
Draft: 8.0m
Crush depth: 317.5m
Light Displacement 1630t
Loaded Displacement 2016t
Full Displacement 2262t
wt fuel&batts: 575t
Reserve buoyancy: 11%

Armament:
- 6 x 533mm (bow)
- 2x 20mm Machineguns (1 from sim, 1 from misc weights)
- 36 tons for mines or reload torpedoes
ElecHP: 3500hp
DieselHP: 7000hp
Speed:
- Max Surf Speed: 18.1 knots
- Max Sub Speed: 14.2 knots
Range:
- Surfaced: 14,784nm@10 knots
- Submerged: 231nm@5 knots
Tons Oil: 350.0t
Tons Battery: 225.0t
Miscellaneous Weight: 110 tons

Crew: 70


18 Type 3 torpedoes reloads (= 36 tons for mines or reload torpedoes)

23 tons for electric torpedo reloading system
10 tons for Ninjatousaya System
50 tons for sonar, hydrophones and radar
17 tons for air condition system
2 tons for deep freeze unit
1 tons for extra 20mm MG
7 tons for various

Italy would be able to offer up ASW equipment for the destroyers. IIRC Italy has had a ahead throwing system in ether development or service for some time (Im not sure what was ever put into play, this is the only ency post on the subject).

Argentina did purchase the D1 system for the two ASW Gaurdia Class destroyers, but RA always insisted on commercial-spec sonars so by no means would it be quite as effective in Argentine service.

Now Argentina wants something modern but compact for use aboard fleet destroyers and it wants the sonars as well as the firing system.
Britain will probably tender their Mortar B 'Squid'.

The submarine contest is now over and a winner has been decided.

*Scottish Connery accent* "The order is engage the Ninjatousaya"

At least the Japanese commanders can say "The order is: engage the silent drive".

Atlantis can offer ASW equipment.....
http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/index.php?pag…d&threadID=1316

Me wonders if 33kn top speed suffice for a modern destroyer. What's the reasoning behind that low speed offered?

Any future home-grown Argentine design would be around 34kts.

I'm not sure speed matters too much, in an age increasingly seeing radar-directed automatic guns (its only a matter of time before the RSAN have them too) surface gunnery and torpedo attacks are going to be costly no matter how fast you are going. Manoeuvrability will be key. Generally I'm looking for something that can serve as a screening vessel, AA defence and offer a reasonably potent ASW capability too.

Any new Argentine destroyer will be using German-sourced 128mm DP guns and 55mm AA guns.
Bids are still open for ASW kit and radar equipment (though I'd probably order Chilean radars at this point).

Quoted

Me wonders if 33kn top speed suffice for a modern destroyer. What's the reasoning behind that low speed offered?

I think it was with Bruce I was talking to in IRC a while back when we were talking about DD speeds. I think we considered speeds around 33 knots to be the "decent enough for DDs" speed.

The thing is that SS is really not made for simming destroyers. While it is an extreme case, the best I could do with Shimakaze was 37.47 knots and that is with a seaboat rating of 0.72 and "Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better)" of 190.4% which is a lot more than what would be able to fit within the ship. There are numerous other OTL destroyers and torpedo boats (both 'new' (Wesworld) and old (Navalism)) which I tried to sim but could not match the OTL given speed.

Looking at the RSAN destroyers, sure they are pretty fast compared to the design Bruce posted, but considering that there is barely any miscellaneous weights on the RSAN destroyers I myself (with the current way I sim ships) consider them to be extremely limited, even borderline useless. Looking at the most recent one, sure 36 knots is quite fast, but 30 tons miscellaneous weights is not enough for the torpedo tubes+torpedoes, any additional reload torpedoes, sonars, radars, AWS armaments, etc.

Also I find 220 rounds per gun for a DP gun to be kinda so-so, especially if you were to recalculate it (like I have recently been doing) to take into account that you need quite a few more shells than 250 for the 57mm and 20mm guns (at least IIRC SS adds ~30 rounds for all non-main gun guns), especially considering that the 57mm gun is an automatic. Those are probably comparable to the 5.5 cm/77 Gerät 58 meaning that they will have run out of ammo in probably less than 3 minutes. Alternatively you could use miscellaneous weights for additional ammunition...

... Oh wait! You can't, because 30 tons just isn't enough for the other vital DD equipment that you cannot mount because you do not have enough miscellaneous weights.

In comparing the South African Trident class destroyers with the Deschimag design proposed for Argentina there are several factors other than speed to take into consideration.

1. Overall size: the Trident class measures 125 meters at the waterline while the Deschimag design measures only 120 meters; it means that the Deschimag design can be built in a Type 1.0 slip while the Trident class requires a Type 1.5 as a minimum.

2. Cost: The Trident class costs a third more to construct than the Deschimag design. Given the disparity in shipbuilding resources between the SAE and Argentina, this is an important consideration.

3. Strength: If we presume relative hull strength to be a measure of how a vessel holds up, the Deschimag design is about 18% stronger than the Trident class; if we look to the survivability data, it will take 610 kg worth of damage to sink a Deschimag; but only 447 kg to sink a Trident.

Beyond these three, there is the question of role. I cannot speak for the Trident class, but to my eye it is a single-function surface combatant, and – as Walter has mentioned further up the thread – it has little spare tonnage for modern electronic systems, additional ammunition, or stretch. The Deschimag is designed as an escort destroyer – using its guns to knock down aircraft or to protect larger vessels from threat of submarines using its A/S sensors and A/S weaponry. It is the A/A defense role that drives the need for higher stability as a gun platform, which can only be obtained at greater cost (tonnage) or a slower top speed.

In the A/S role, sensors suffer sharply at speeds over twenty knots; as A/S sensors improved in the 1950s, this would increase, but for the middle 1940s, it would still hold. It is questionable whether the Trident class could offer much in the way of A/S defense.

German doctrine – and the Deschimag design is a product of that thinking – does not believe that surface engagements are growing unlikely in the future. Radar and other electronic sensors, combined with adequate aerial reconnaissance, render day or night torpedo attacks by surface vessels improbable.

But then it must be said misc weight accountancy as an art form has gained ground over the years. When I first started playing here it was about 30tons and everything else was thought to be taken care of by under hull fittings etc. It never even occurred to us that torpedoes and their mounts were ghosts with mass but no weight. Many old designs have no margins. I think we've learned over time and we must accept that older designs are not necessarily worse than new designs, but designed to a different philosophy. Of course for refits etc. now to the newer ideals, these old ships are a pain in the backside (same goes for folks who insist on using default shell weights!!)

Saying that both Walter and Bruce make some excellent points.

Quoted from "Hood"

It never even occurred to us that torpedoes and their mounts were ghosts with mass but no weight.

I will remind folks that we determined the tubes and the first set of torpedoes that go in them are covered by the weights already in Springsharp. Adding miscellaneous weight permits reloads.