WesWorld

The Comprehensive Minor Combattant Program is just a year old and already it's being screwed around with!

See, Year Two of the plan called for the construction of a sextet of larger paratraatii-type escorts, but the BNS suddenly decided it was comfortable with its overall numbers - 58 daakuui and destroyers in service or building, and 28 frigates and paratraatii in service. Less impressive, though, is the coastal escort (charavaahii) totals - a mere ten units. Therefore, the BNS will acquire six new Ambala class coastal escorts in 1945, and then another six in 1946, utilizing the same three slipways for the entire program.

The type is in no respects spectacular, but it does have a reasonable top speed and a full Mangus ASW system for submarine hunting. The 105 mm gun allows engagement of surfaced submarines or delivery of warning shots across bows; the 57 mm installation provides some additional air defence, though the ship would normally be under Bharati land-based air cover anyway.

A basic winch and boom kit has been included for limited minesweeping capability; this would also be useful for retrieving practice torpedoes, wreckage, and other materials in the water.

Ambala, coastal escort laid down 1945

Displacement:
499 t light; 517 t standard; 611 t normal; 686 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
209.14 ft / 200.13 ft x 25.59 ft x 8.69 ft (normal load)
63.75 m / 61.00 m x 7.80 m x 2.65 m

Armament:
1 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1945 Model
Dual purpose gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
2 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1945 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 47 lbs / 21 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,435 shp / 4,800 Kw = 22.93 kts
Range 4,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 168 tons

Complement:
60 - 79

Cost:
£0.312 million / $1.248 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 6 tons, 1.0 %
Armour: 3 tons, 0.5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 3 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 162 tons, 26.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 242 tons, 39.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 112 tons, 18.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 85 tons, 13.9 %
-20 t: Mangus ASW system and five reload salvoes
-10 t: Blast shielding around Mangus and deck reinforcement below
-25 t: Basic sonar, radar and fire control fittings
-25 t: Minesweeping kit
-5 t: Miscellaneous weight

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
749 lbs / 340 Kg = 21.2 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 12.80 ft / 3.90 m
- Mid (50 %): 12.80 ft / 3.90 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 11.56 ft / 3.52 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.2 %
Waterplane Area: 3,352 Square feet or 311 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 176 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.83
- Longitudinal: 4.92
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Have you described the Mangus system somewhere, and I've missed it? Or is it something Perdy initiated?

It was first installed in 1943 on a couple of sloops:

Quoted

This is the first unit to ship the Mangus ASW rocket launcher system, a device that has been tinkered with on and off for years (early experiments took place aboard the old light cruiser Jaipur). The system mounts nineteen rockets in a launcher in "Anton" position and are fired in one near-simultaneous salvo by remote control. 15 tonnes has been allocated to the loaded system, and 1 tonne to each reload salvo. As with the historical Hedgehog, it is assumed that the system can be manually reloaded in a few minutes.

Aha, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

No problemo.

Looks a nice little design. I like this and I'm starting to feel the RN is missing something like this.

That's fair. I've come around to thinking that the BNS is a little too Blue Water and not sufficiently Brown Water for the empire's actual needs.

I'm thinking Mangus is in "B" position?

That's correct. It's the boxy thing in front of the bridge. My drawings are too low-res to make it look any more distinct.

The quote referring to the thing being in "A" position refers to a different ship - I copied it here for information purposes about the system in general.

The Bangalore class cruisers are the largest light cruisers laid down by the BNS to date. A pair of units - Bangalore and Karachi - will be laid down in 1945 and 1946 respectively, and will likely form the heavy escort for the aircraft carrier Trishula once all are in service.

The class is designed around the twin 150mm automatic gun designed in collaboration with the RSAN and tested on the monitor Chandragupta. While the test mount has naturally experienced teething difficulties, these are gradually being resolved and it is felt that the mount will be ready for service by the time Bangalore completes trials in early 1947. Some consideration was given towards shipping a fifth turret aft, but the type was considered to be expensive enough as it was.

At this time, the 150 mm auto is considered to be an anti-surface weapon with limited anti-air capability. There is some skepticism about developing a true dual-purpose weapon, given the potential difficulty of tracking fast aerial targets with such heavy mountings and the overkill of 150mm shells against most conceivable aircraft. Consequently, a medium AA battery continues to be carried, along with a light battery of 57mm and 25mm guns.

Protection is improved in all respects over the previous Dombivli class, and speed and endurance are effectively the same. No aircraft are embarked, as the scouting function will be conducted by the screened carrier; that said, the quarterdeck may allow for autogyro landings.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1945

Displacement:
10,902 t light; 11,670 t standard; 13,567 t normal; 15,084 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
620.39 ft / 603.67 ft x 60.70 ft x 25.92 ft (normal load)
189.09 m / 184.00 m x 18.50 m x 7.90 m

Armament:
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1945 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (2x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1945 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (4x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1945 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
26 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (13x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 12 raised mounts
32 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1945 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 18 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,759 lbs / 798 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 450
8 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 16.01 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.56" / 65 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 99,196 shp / 74,000 Kw = 32.99 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,414 tons

Complement:
628 - 817

Cost:
£6.413 million / $25.652 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 233 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 2,939 tons, 21.7 %
- Belts: 1,239 tons, 9.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 440 tons, 3.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,202 tons, 8.9 %
- Conning Tower: 58 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,505 tons, 18.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,761 tons, 35.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,664 tons, 19.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 464 tons, 3.4 %
-230 t: Extra weight for four twin 150mm automatic turrets
-200 t: Electronics and fire control
-34 t: Weight reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
19,411 lbs / 8,804 Kg = 188.5 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 15.09 ft / 4.60 m (22.97 ft / 7.00 m before break)
- Stern: 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Average freeboard: 21.78 ft / 6.64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.6 %
Waterplane Area: 25,387 Square feet or 2,359 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 528 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.82
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

I appreciate the concern shown for the possible usefulness of the 15cm automatic gun in the AA role; I am not convinced that tracking would be possible at this stage. Overall, I find it a very workmanlike design.

I do find retention the numerous 25mm single mounts a bit odd; operating under local control they are weapons of last resort and I would think that twins, triples or even 25mm quads would be more efficacious in putting up a wall of lead in the path of an oncoming aircraft.

Fair point. Perhaps that aspect of the design might evolve a bit.

A fairly powerful design overall and it seems a fair blend of characteristics and there's nothing I could fault with the design, Bruce's point about the 25mm is probably the only obvious thing.

Nice to see a non-DP auto, as you say tracking and such is going to be difficult/ power-hungry and as a classic CL with new toys, this design seems very good.

Considering the number of 25mm on the design now, 16x2 or 8x4 seem to be the logical options if you were to keep the number of guns the same (if it were a Japanese design, I would used the quads).

Neat design.

I think I'm with Walter in preferring quads for the 25mm. Of course, I'm one of those few people who likes the USN's quad 1.1" guns...

I suppose quads would be a logical follow-up from the old 15mm quad "Buzzsaw" I used to install.

It'd save some deckspace. I've been wondering how the hell I was going to fit Trishula's AA battery into that sketch...

Quoted from "The Rock Doctor"

I suppose quads would be a logical follow-up from the old 15mm quad "Buzzsaw" I used to install.

It'd save some deckspace. I've been wondering how the hell I was going to fit Trishula's AA battery into that sketch...

While I have left it off some of the Kriegsmarine's latest vessels, I always think of the 20mm Flakvierling as "Shredder". If you run into its stream of fire, you are in deep trouble. ;)

Quoted

Of course, I'm one of those few people who likes the USN's quad 1.1" guns...

Well that was the one that made me introduce the quad 25mm mount.

Quoted

I always think of the 20mm Flakvierling as "Shredder". If you run into its stream of fire, you are in deep trouble.

'You' being what?
a) Planes in the sky.
b) Soldiers on the battlefield.
c) Crews of merchant ships.
d) All of the above

Quoted from "Rooijen10"

Quoted

I always think of the 20mm Flakvierling as "Shredder". If you run into its stream of fire, you are in deep trouble.

'You' being what?
a) Planes in the sky.
b) Soldiers on the battlefield.
c) Crews of merchant ships.
d) All of the above

You omitted Leonardo, Raphael, Donatello and Michelangelo - but "D" above will suffice. :D

Quoted from "BruceDuncan"

You omitted Leonardo, Raphael, Donatello and Michelangelo