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And the stats....

Aegir 2aaa, Denmark Battleship laid down 1927

Displacement:
32,823 t light; 34,960 t standard; 37,325 t normal; 39,068 t full load
Loading submergence 1,525 tons/feet

Dimensions:
720.00 ft x 112.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
219.46 m x 34.14 m x 9.14 m

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3 Main turrets x 3 guns, 1 superfiring turret)
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6 2nd turrets x 2 guns)
10 - 3.00" / 76 mm AA guns
32 - 1.57" / 40 mm guns
Weight of broadside 16,681 lbs / 7,566 kg

Armour:
Belt 14.00" / 356 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 78 % of normal area
Main turrets 14.00" / 356 mm, 2nd turrets 1.25" / 32 mm
AA gun shields 0.50" / 13 mm, Light gun shields 0.50" / 13 mm
Armour deck 4.50" / 114 mm, Conning tower 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 120,211 shp / 89,677 Kw = 28.50 kts
Range 13,000nm at 12.00 kts

Complement:
1,342 - 1,745

Cost:
£12.478 million / $49.913 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,085 tons, 5.6 %
Armour: 11,098 tons, 29.7 %
Belts: 2,804 tons, 7.5 %, Armament: 3,514 tons, 9.4 %, Armour Deck: 4,443 tons, 11.9 %
Conning Tower: 338 tons, 0.9 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 3,795 tons, 10.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,695 tons, 42.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,502 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.4 %

Metacentric height 6.0

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.00
Shellfire needed to sink: 44,471 lbs / 20,172 Kg = 26.4 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 4.4
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 70 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.52
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.540
Sharpness coefficient: 0.40
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 6.59
'Natural speed' for length: 26.83 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim: 70
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 77.0 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 154.3 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 105 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.99
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 216 lbs / square foot or 1,053 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.37
(for 20.38 ft / 6.21 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 0.67 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.03

Armour has 100mm decapping plate
There are 4 scout aircraft aboard.

As you will notice, there is .03 of composite hull strenght left over, which equates to about 400 tons, this is to cover the 2 superfiring secondaries and the 24 X 20mm light A/A cannon.

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As you will notice, there is .03 of composite hull strenght left over, which equates to about 400 tons, this is to cover the 2 superfiring secondaries and the 24 X 20mm light A/A cannon.

With the secondaries what you also could do is sim them as main guns and see how much tons of armor you need for the 4 non superfiring and the 2 superfiring secondaries. Fill them into the secondary position and enter armor thickness for that position which has equal weight to what you have in the main gun position. Once that is done, use your real main guns and edit the secondaries (adding "2 superfiring turrets" and adjusting the thickness of secondary armor back to "1.25" / 32 mm". Don't forget to add below how you have done it.
As for the 20mm guns, you could simply add them to the 40mm guns and edit the data later. This is what I did with the Atatake (scroll down a bit for the data) to get 5 caliber types on the ship.
Definitely not a ship designed to go through the Panama Canal. :-)

whats the max size for Panama?

I seem to remember 108 feet.

Panama Canal: 975'x108'x34' or 38'(?)
Suez Canal: ???x180'x58'

A very nice-looking ship. But a few critiques...

1. How many aircraft does she carry? 150 t = 6; I don't see a hangar so practically speaking she's limited to one. Cutting misc weight to ~75t (allowing for the mysterious "huggin" system ) will help a few other things...

2. ...such as her stability. 1.00, while barely acceptable, is marginal. I understand that 1.05 is much preferable.

3. ...and her seaworthiness. Will this ship be making the Faeros (sp?) run? 1.00 here will not make your sailors happy.

4. A good point: I like having rangefinders on all turrets. This allows each turret to engage a different target with little loss of accuracy. (I'm going to use the same principle on my Samal-class battlecruisers.) However I would build the turrets so the RFs stick out of the sides - going all the way across makes it look like they were a retrofit.

5. A very minor cosmetic nitpick: does the ship really need four anchors? Three looks good IMHO; but four?

6. The second set of 40mm guns from the bow is in a bad position. When Alpha turret is at its maximum traverse, these guys are gonna catch a bad case of muzzle blast. And the forwardmost 76mm mounts look like they might obstruct Beta turret.

7. Is 76mm an adequate caliber for the third battery? If you're swarmed by TBs you may wish you'd gone for 100. And I can only find eight of the 20mm cannons (atop Beta and Omega turrets).

Now that I've done my best Hooman impression , I'll say that she's still a great-looking ship, and will make an excellent flagship for the Danish navy...

...as long as she keeps out of the South China Sea! :-p

I have no issues with the tertiary calibre of 76mm - other than that it is rather unmetrical for the RDN. Tertiaries are not really used for TB defence anyway. They do seem a bit light for the main AA guns (says Iberia which uses 57 mm ...).

Quoted

Originally posted by Swamphen
Now that I've done my best Hooman impression ,

HEY! ;o)

Actually there´s little to complain. She´s a nice ship, your best drawing yet, CG. Especially that hangar aft is a good idea. Maybe her decks are still a pixel too low but I haven´t messured it, it´s just my impression on first glimpse.

There is a little bit of a well-known dutch battlecruiser design in her, correct?

Regarding her stats I´d like to point out her stability. As of http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…0603d2d65503e73 (Point 4) it would be nice to see her stability increase by 0,01.

More important is the lack of a TDS on a 35kts design . That really needs to be fixed but I won´t start that discussion again.

Ciao,

HoOmAn

Apart from comments already made (TDS, seakeeping, stability), it's a decent design. Certainly a good drawing; I appreciate the scale bars.

Giving up a knot or so of speed would probably let you correct all of those.

You'll have just finished Tyr when this type is laid down. Would there be some merit in evaluating Tyr for a year or two - and revising the Aegir design accordingly - before you lay the latter down?

Didn't even notice the "tracks" leading to the hangar. Sorry! Now that 150t misc weight makes more sense.

So ignore my point "1".

Quoted

3. ...and her seaworthiness. Will this ship be making the Faeros (sp?) run? 1.00 here will not make your sailors happy.

Well, it's not a cruise ship, is it? If he wants to make those sailors suffer then that is his business.

Quoted

6. The second set of 40mm guns from the bow is in a bad position. When Alpha turret is at its maximum traverse, these guys are gonna catch a bad case of muzzle blast.

Better not apply for a job in that position then. :-)

Quoted

And the forwardmost 76mm mounts look like they might obstruct Beta turret.

When the 76mm guns aim forward, they probably will, but when aimed to the side, they might just be out of the way. Don't have a proper program here to test it. Better be safe than sorry and move them a bit back, or move the mains a bit forward.

Quoted

And I can only find eight of the 20mm cannons (atop Beta and Omega turrets).

There are eight more at the sides of the funnel. Not sure where the remaining 8 are...

Quoted

More important is the lack of a TDS on a 35kts design . That really needs to be fixed but I won´t start that discussion again.

We can always do, since I never agreed to it. ^_^

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn

Quoted

Originally posted by Swamphen
Now that I've done my best Hooman impression ,

HEY! ;o)

Actually there´s little to complain. She´s a nice ship, your best drawing yet, CG. Especially that hangar aft is a good idea. Maybe her decks are still a pixel too low but I haven´t messured it, it´s just my impression on first glimpse.

There is a little bit of a well-known dutch battlecruiser design in her, correct?

Regarding her stats I´d like to point out her stability. As of http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…0603d2d65503e73 (Point 4) it would be nice to see her stability increase by 0,01.

More important is the lack of a TDS on a 35kts design . That really needs to be fixed but I won´t start that discussion again.

Ciao,

HoOmAn

Thanks for the comments,
The decks are 8 pixels apart = 8 feet, based on your suggestions Hooman!

No Dutch in her at all, I worked from a "clean slate"

As for the stability, i thought that was just to do away with erronious torpedo damage readings, which fot Aegir are 7.6, so at 4.4 she is more realistic!

TDS.....DOH, I completely missed that.
Back to the drawing board!!!!!!!

Quoted

As for the stability, i thought that was just to do away with erronious torpedo damage readings, which fot Aegir are 7.6, so at 4.4 she is more realistic!

Nah, it is better to avoid it al together. As Swamphen said: "such as her stability. 1.00, while barely acceptable, is marginal. I understand that 1.05 is much preferable."
I think that if you add a TBH, drop its speed slightly and perhaps make minor adjustments to the rest of the ship, not only will your seaboat rating rise, but since steadiness is linked to seaboat rating, you will need less trim and that will raise the stability a bit.

I don't think the arrangement of the light AA guns is that bad. Take a look at a US BB at the end of WW-2. They had 40mm & 20mm guns covering just about every square inch of deck space - even alongside main gun barbettes and on the bow.
I doubt the AA gun crews would be on deck during a surface action. They would probably inside the ship's skin away from the main battery blast.

Quoted

Originally posted by JohnEStauffer
I don't think the arrangement of the light AA guns is that bad. Take a look at a US BB at the end of WW-2. They had 40mm & 20mm guns covering just about every square inch of deck space - even alongside main gun barbettes and on the bow.
I doubt the AA gun crews would be on deck during a surface action. They would probably inside the ship's skin away from the main battery blast.

Thanks John, I was thinking that the AA crews would be doing just that, taking cover during a surface action!

Would be a bit of a problem if the ship was attacked during the surface action. Hope the AA gunners have got life insurance cause you never know what nasty stuff will happen. We all know what happened to Miguel Malvar, the previous Presidente of the Philippines.
:-)

The New Improved "Panamised" Aegir

And just enough longer that I have to build a type 4 Slip!!



Aegir 2b, Denmark Battleship laid down 1927

Displacement:
34,558 t light; 36,736 t standard; 39,387 t normal; 41,350 t full load
Loading submergence 1,573 tons/feet

Dimensions:
750.00 ft x 106.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
228.60 m x 32.31 m x 9.14 m

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3 Main turrets x 3 guns, 1 superfiring turret)
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6 2nd turrets x 2 guns)
10 - 3.00" / 76 mm AA guns
32 - 1.57" / 40 mm guns
Weight of broadside 16,681 lbs / 7,566 kg

Armour:
Belt 14.00" / 356 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 93 % of normal area
Main turrets 14.00" / 356 mm, 2nd turrets 1.25" / 32 mm
AA gun shields 0.50" / 13 mm, Light gun shields 0.50" / 13 mm
Armour deck 4.50" / 114 mm, Conning tower 14.00" / 356 mm
Torpedo bulkhead 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 122,845 shp / 91,642 Kw = 28.50 kts
Range 14,000nm at 12.00 kts

Complement:
1,397 - 1,817

Cost:
£12.741 million / $50.966 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,085 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 12,474 tons, 31.7 %
Belts: 3,325 tons, 8.4 %, Armament: 3,673 tons, 9.3 %, Armour Deck: 4,584 tons, 11.6 %
Conning Tower: 351 tons, 0.9 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 541 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 3,878 tons, 9.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,971 tons, 40.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,829 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.4 %

Metacentric height 5.7

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.02
Shellfire needed to sink: 41,082 lbs / 18,634 Kg = 24.3 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 5.4
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 70 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.65
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.578
Sharpness coefficient: 0.40
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 6.74
'Natural speed' for length: 27.39 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim: 64
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 90.9 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 165.2 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 106 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.99
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 208 lbs / square foot or 1,014 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.26
(for 22.00 ft / 6.71 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 2.08 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.01

Armour has 100mm decapping plate
4 X W30 scout aircraft (or later model) will be carried

And the 20mm mounts around the funnels are all twins, so there are your 8 missing guns!!

Quoted

And just enough longer that I have to build a type 4 Slip!!

Ouch! Perhaps you could borrow a type IV slip from another nation...

I was planning on upgrading one of my type 3's anyway, just means I have to do it by 1927!!

Also noticed that I didn't change the tonnage on the pic.
it's a little heavier, but I kept it inside the 5% limit!!(Just)

Yes, just...
Perhaps you should make it a nice round 35,000 tons.

I've tried, but not having much success!