WesWorld

Hello. I have created a few armored and protected cruisers and thought I would post them here. the year is 1908, though I think I will amend that to 1903 as they are all outclassed by ships of their day.

They are also all miniatures. being between 4/5 and 1/3 the normal displacement of their class.

* I suck at naming things.

This is a pocket armored cruiser I developed. The armor is based of Furst Bismark. I find it difficult to determine the differences between full turret and turret on Barbette. It is undergunned relative to other armored cruisers of the 10,000 ton displacement, but with 8 in of belt armor has a vast superiority in defensive capability to 6500 ton protected cruisers.

her intended role is as a coast and colony defense ship. able to outfight enemy protected cruisers while not being as expensive as a full armored cruiser.

Battleaxe, Armored Cruiser laid down 1908

Displacement:
5,401 t light; 5,628 t standard; 6,500 t normal; 7,198 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
410.00 ft / 410.00 ft x 56.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
124.97 m / 124.97 m x 17.07 m x 4.88 m

Armament:
6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
16 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (8x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,048 lbs / 929 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 80
4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.20" / 208 mm 205.00 ft / 62.48 m 8.98 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 80.00 ft / 24.38 m 8.98 ft / 2.74 m
125.00 ft / 38.10 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 2.00" / 51 mm 205.00 ft / 62.48 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 3.00" / 76 mm

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 8,476 ihp / 6,323 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 4,200nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,570 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
361 - 470

Cost:
£0.512 million / $2.048 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 256 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 2,086 tons, 32.1 %
- Belts: 919 tons, 14.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 474 tons, 7.3 %
- Armour Deck: 633 tons, 9.7 %
- Conning Tower: 60 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 771 tons, 11.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,233 tons, 34.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,099 tons, 16.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 55 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,841 lbs / 4,010 Kg = 34.5 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.619
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.32 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m (11.00 ft / 3.35 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Quarterdeck (25 %): 9.00 ft / 2.74 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m before break)
- Stern: 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Average freeboard: 12.38 ft / 3.77 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.5 %
Waterplane Area: 17,097 Square feet or 1,588 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 464 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.15
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Here is a pocket protected cruiser. looking at displacements I noticed a large gap between the destroyers of 600 ton, and the cruisers of 6000 ton. I decided to construct a 3200 ton protected cruiser to play take and hold with destroyers.

She costs about as much as 5 decent sized destroyers, and has them wholly outgunned. the problems I foresee are her limited speed, and armor. she is vulnerable to other protected cruisers. the 6 in gun armament gives her the ability to defend herself, and at 1/3 to 1/4 the projected cost of a full protected cruiser a squadron of these could be deployed giving greater area coverage.

Glorious, Protected Cruiser laid down 1909

Displacement:
2,520 t light; 2,638 t standard; 3,200 t normal; 3,650 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
320.00 ft / 320.00 ft x 45.00 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
97.54 m / 97.54 m x 13.72 m x 4.27 m

Armament:
6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (3x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1909 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1909 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 904 lbs / 410 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 176.00 ft / 53.64 m 8.05 ft / 2.45 m
Ends: 0.50" / 13 mm 143.98 ft / 43.89 m 8.05 ft / 2.45 m
Upper: 0.30" / 8 mm 176.00 ft / 53.64 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.70" / 94 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 3.80" / 97 mm
2nd: 1.80" / 46 mm - 1.80" / 46 mm

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 3.50" / 89 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 5,747 ihp / 4,287 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 4,200nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,011 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
212 - 276

Cost:
£0.245 million / $0.980 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 113 tons, 3.5 %
Armour: 853 tons, 26.6 %
- Belts: 104 tons, 3.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 172 tons, 5.4 %
- Armour Deck: 561 tons, 17.5 %
- Conning Tower: 16 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 442 tons, 13.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,063 tons, 33.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 680 tons, 21.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,255 lbs / 1,930 Kg = 39.4 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 12.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.37

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.556
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m (9.50 ft / 2.90 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 9.50 ft / 2.90 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 8.00 ft / 2.44 m (9.50 ft / 2.90 m before break)
- Stern: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Average freeboard: 10.58 ft / 3.22 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.2 %
Waterplane Area: 10,102 Square feet or 939 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 358 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.44
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Hello again. welcome to pocket heaven. I have another pocket protected cruiser, this time at a whopping 2700 ton displacement.

at 2/3 the displacement of the Glorious (hate that name) it should come as no surprise that she has 2/3 the armament. she also has 2/3 the deck armor and is generally 2/3 of a ship.

Hyperion, Protected Cruiser laid down 1903

Displacement:
2,146 t light; 2,242 t standard; 2,700 t normal; 3,066 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
340.00 ft / 340.00 ft x 42.00 ft x 12.50 ft (normal load)
103.63 m / 103.63 m x 12.80 m x 3.81 m

Armament:
4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1903 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1903 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 688 lbs / 312 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm - 1.80" / 46 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 4,501 ihp / 3,358 Kw = 17.50 kts
Range 4,200nm at 13.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 824 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
186 - 243

Cost:
£0.241 million / $0.966 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 86 tons, 3.2 %
Armour: 466 tons, 17.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 88 tons, 3.3 %
- Armour Deck: 362 tons, 13.4 %
- Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 672 tons, 24.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 887 tons, 32.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 554 tons, 20.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,817 lbs / 1,278 Kg = 26.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.49
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 10.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.529
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.10 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.44 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Quarterdeck (40 %): 7.00 ft / 2.13 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m before break)
- Stern: 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
- Average freeboard: 8.80 ft / 2.68 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 83.7 %
Waterplane Area: 9,776 Square feet or 908 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 318 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.01
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

They're all nice designs but my biggest concern is the low speed, especially for the 1908 and 1909 ships. Turbines are now widely available and you'll be facing similar ships that are easily 5-6 knots faster.

I think it would be worth resimming those with turbines and see how much improvement you can make. Yes, cost will go up but you'll end up with a better vessel in the end.

I agree with Eltf, your Pockets are too slow.
in 1908, increase the speed to 26 kts is better.

IMO, All pockets BB, BC or Cruisers are always with 2T3x...

Jef

Quoted from "Alias72"

Here is a pocket protected cruiser. looking at displacements I noticed a large gap between the destroyers of 600 ton, and the cruisers of 6000 ton. I decided to construct a 3200 ton protected cruiser to play take and hold with destroyers.

She costs about as much as 5 decent sized destroyers, and has them wholly outgunned. the problems I foresee are her limited speed, and armor. she is vulnerable to other protected cruisers. the 6 in gun armament gives her the ability to defend herself, and at 1/3 to 1/4 the projected cost of a full protected cruiser a squadron of these could be deployed giving greater area coverage.

You're essentially working in the same size category as the historical British Topaze-class protected cruisers from 1908, which were somewhat faster (22 knots). A few years later, you have the similarly-sized Arethusa-class which was even faster (26 knots) and intended to scout for the fleet (and fight destroyers and torpedo boats as a result). There were also dedicated scout cruisers (Boadicea, Blonde, Active, etc) specifically intended to led and fight against destroyers. In practice, the British found the scout cruisers were too small and weak to retain their theoretically higher speeds in the normal North Sea weather conditions, and the ostensibly-slower and larger Town class was "faster" in almost all prevailing conditions. As a result, the moment the British started getting real war experience, "pocket cruisers" were ditched and sidelined to secondary roles while the "real cruisers" became the main show.