WesWorld

Thanks for the help guys. I have a idea or two floating around about another type or two, but this covers all the fighters.

The previously mentioned bomber types.

Caproni Striscia: Jet-powered evolution of the Astore. First flight in 1950

General characteristics
Crew: 3
Length: 16 m
Wingspan: 18.00 m
Height: 5.2 m
Powerplant: Two Fiat A.5000
Empty Weight: 8500kg
Gross Wieght: 15500kg

Performance
Maximum speed: 780 km/h
Range: 2200 km
Service ceiling: 11,000m

Armament
1x20mm Cannon
2x13.2mm MG
3000kg bombs

Macchi-Savoia-Marchetti Freccetta: Light Strike aircraft with a first flight in 1947. Note this is meant to be a period appropriate Aermacchi MB-326 that will lead to the historical design.

General characteristics
Crew: 2
Length: 10.5 m
Wingspan: 10.50 m
Height: 3.7 m
Powerplant: Alfa Romeo C.2600
Empty Weight: 2230kg
Gross Wieght: 3550kg

Performance
Maximum speed: 780 km/h
Range: 1600 km
Service ceiling: 11,000m

Armament
2x13.2mm MG
1500kg under wing stores, including gun pods, rockets, bombs and fuel tanks.

Macchi-Savoia-Marchetti Baleno: High speed tactical recon aircraft with a first flight in 1945. One of few production aircraft to use the Fiat A.2200. Maybe reengined with the A.3000/3250 later.

General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 12 m
Wingspan: 13.75 m
Height: 4 m
Powerplant: Two Fiat A.2200
Empty Weight: 5300kg
Gross Wieght: 9500kg

Performance
Maximum speed: 760 km/h
Range: 1300 km
Service ceiling: 10,000m

Armament
1000kg under wing stores, including gun pods, rockets and fuel tanks.

Breda-CANT Onager: Heavy Bomber, first flight 1950. Not immediately a success, but more mature versions of the type see continued service.
General characteristics
Crew: 4
Length: 23 m
Wingspan: 27 m
Height: 8 m
Powerplant: Six Fiat A.5000
Empty Weight: 20750kg
Gross Wieght: 50000kg

Performance
Maximum speed: 900 km/h
Range: 1600 km
Service ceiling: 14,000m

Armament
4x13.2mm MG
10000kg bombs

I think that you need to reconsider the gross weight of your aircraft, or the terminology used.

For example, the Macchi-Savoia-Marchetti Freccetta is supposed to have an empty weight of 2230 kg and a "gross weight" of 3,500 kg. That is a difference of 1,270 kg. The aircraft is supposed to carry an ordnance load of 1,500 kg. Allowing for the weight of the crew, internal fuel and any other internal load, you have exceeded the "gross weight" of the aircraft.

Frankly, I have doubts of a "period appropriate Aermacchi MB-326" so early, no matter what the weights or engine availability.

Ya, that one is a bit tight. Before I fiddle with it, can you detail your reservations about the Freccetta a bit more. What are the problems with the aircraft as presented?

You may wish to check this first, to clarify terminology.

To sum up my technical concerns regarding the Freccetta design, you have it carrying more ordnance than the aircraft can handle, if you follow the literal meaning of aircraft gross weight. See the item above for a more thorough discussion.

Secondly, the concept of a "light strike aircraft" in two-seat configuration seems rather anachronistic. It is as if you are designing a trainer and then backing into a secondary strike role. That is very 1960s. If you are envisioning a 'cheap' fighter bomber, in the vein of the OTL Bregeut Taon or Folland Gnat, that is a very 1950s operational concept.

The program does not seem to grow organically out of need, but seems like a backward projection of successful ideas.

Do these specs look better? Im looking for this to supplement the Breda Ba.67 in the ground attack roll until the Ba.67 becomes to outclassed. Given the historical use of radial engine fighter-bombers for some time after jets came on stage, I feel the Ba.67 has some life left but should be supplemented by a jet until the jets gain enough capability to totally replace the Ba.67.

General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 10.5 m
Wingspan: 10.50 m
Height: 3.7 m
Powerplant: Alfa Romeo C.2600
Empty Weight: 2230kg
Gross Wieght: 4550kg

Performance
Maximum speed: 770 km/h
Range: 1200 km
Service ceiling: 11,000m

Armament
2x13.2mm MG
1000kg under wing stores.

Better, perhaps; attainable, I do not think so.

My best estimate of the fuel required for this aircraft for one hour's flight would be 1,300 kg. That is based on the specific fuel consumption of the Armstrong Siddeley Viper which powers the OTL MB.326; compared to first generation turbojets, that is very good. The Junkers Jumo has a higher specific fuel consumption - I doubt Fiat in the mid 1940s would match British engineers of the mid 1950s in jet engine performance - but that's just me.

Assuming the weights specified, we would then have:

Airframe - 2,230 kg
Crew - 100 kg
Fuel - 1,300 kg
External stores - 1,000 kg
Total of above - 4,630 kg

Specified A/C Gross weight - 4,550 kg

Lack of loiter time over the target was the reason piston engine fighter bombers lasted as long as they did.

I think there is still long life for large piston-powered engines in ground attack aircraft. They don't really need high speed when making attacks and can fly low and hug the ground, avoiding jet fighters. Loiter time is far more important and don't forget these ground attack planes lug lots of draggy stores anyway. Best to have something rugged and able to operate from the roughest and toughest dirt strips.
Don't forget in North Africa the sand issue is going to be worse.

A Canberra clone is likely to be very handy however.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
I think there is still long life for large piston-powered engines in ground attack aircraft. They don't really need high speed when making attacks and can fly low and hug the ground, avoiding jet fighters. Loiter time is far more important and don't forget these ground attack planes lug lots of draggy stores anyway. Best to have something rugged and able to operate from the roughest and toughest dirt strips.
Don't forget in North Africa the sand issue is going to be worse.

A Canberra clone is likely to be very handy however.

As much as I wanted to do something based on the Canberra, I wont have the engines for it until after 1950. Its looking like Im going to can the Freccetta as a early jet and move it past 1950 for its introduction. The type is coming, just not so soon.