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1

Saturday, September 7th 2013, 6:21pm

French Ships for 1945

Some proposals. Some are really on my build plan, while others are just ideas at the moment.

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Marseillaise-class, French Heavy Cruiser laid down 1945[/SIZE]

Displacement:
16,600 t light; 17,416 t standard; 20,346 t normal; 22,690 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
730.14 ft / 721.78 ft x 75.46 ft x 23.62 ft (normal load)
222.55 m / 220.00 m x 23.00 m x 7.20 m

Armament:
12 - 7.87" / 200 mm guns (4x3 guns), 286.60lbs / 130.00kg shells, 1945 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1945 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 1945 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,946 lbs / 1,790 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 5.12" / 130 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 138,729 shp / 103,492 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,274 tons

Complement:
851 - 1,107

Cost:
£10.280 million / $41.121 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 496 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 4,085 tons, 20.1 %
- Belts: 1,406 tons, 6.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 862 tons, 4.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,735 tons, 8.5 %
- Conning Tower: 82 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 3,503 tons, 17.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,613 tons, 37.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,746 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 903 tons, 4.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
28,642 lbs / 12,992 Kg = 117.3 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.553
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.58 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.43 ft / 7.75 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 20.51 ft / 6.25 m
- Average freeboard: 22.22 ft / 6.77 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 186.7 %
Waterplane Area: 39,706 Square feet or 3,689 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 636 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Breakdown of Miscellaneous Weights:
- 528 tons for automatic 20cm turrets (128t each)
- 375 tons for normal CA stuff.

Ships in Class:
- Marseillaise
- Suffren
- Amiral Charner
- Duguay-Trouin

2

Saturday, September 7th 2013, 6:23pm

[SIZE=3]Inflexible, French Experimental Cruiser laid down 1945[/SIZE]

Displacement:
3,887 t light; 4,128 t standard; 4,904 t normal; 5,524 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
501.68 ft / 492.13 ft x 49.21 ft x 15.75 ft (normal load)
152.91 m / 150.00 m x 15.00 m x 4.80 m

Armament:
6 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (3x2 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1945 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1945 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1945 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 710 lbs / 322 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 350

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.20" / 5 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 62,650 shp / 46,737 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 7,500nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,396 tons

Complement:
292 - 380

Cost:
£3.072 million / $12.288 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 104 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 76 tons, 1.5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 64 tons, 1.3 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 12 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,582 tons, 32.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,795 tons, 36.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,017 tons, 20.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 330 tons, 6.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,267 lbs / 1,482 Kg = 30.5 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m (15.75 ft / 4.80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Stern: 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 20.14 ft / 6.14 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 129.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 199.9 %
Waterplane Area: 16,047 Square feet or 1,491 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 305 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.68
- Longitudinal: 1.91
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Breakdown of Miscellaneous Weights:
Not yet available.

Ships in Class:
- Inflexible

3

Saturday, September 7th 2013, 6:26pm

[SIZE=3]Du Chayla, French Light Cruiser laid down 1945[/SIZE]

Displacement:
8,230 t light; 8,531 t standard; 9,880 t normal; 10,959 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
578.07 ft / 557.74 ft x 59.06 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
176.20 m / 170.00 m x 18.00 m x 6.40 m

Armament:
8 - 5.43" / 138 mm guns (4x2 guns), 89.51lbs / 40.60kg shells, 1945 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1945 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 809 lbs / 367 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 220
16 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 94,892 shp / 70,789 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 8,500nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,428 tons

Complement:
495 - 644

Cost:
£4.842 million / $19.369 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 110 tons, 1.1 %
Armour: 1,752 tons, 17.7 %
- Belts: 651 tons, 6.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 223 tons, 2.3 %
- Armour Deck: 831 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,423 tons, 24.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,695 tons, 37.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,651 tons, 16.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,639 lbs / 6,186 Kg = 170.1 x 5.4 " / 138 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.07 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 22.05 ft / 6.72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117.1 %
Waterplane Area: 22,822 Square feet or 2,120 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 466 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.98
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

4

Saturday, September 7th 2013, 6:29pm

The two Richelieus are the only two French capital ships which lack radar. They must be refitted to acquire it. Along the way, I'll give them modern AA for shooting at the aeroplanes. 25% refit.

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Richelieu, French Battleship laid down 1931, refitted 1945[/SIZE]

Displacement:
34,314 t light; 36,163 t standard; 41,190 t normal; 45,212 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
780.83 ft / 764.76 ft x 104.99 ft (Bulges 114.17 ft) x 30.02 ft (normal load)
238.00 m / 233.10 m x 32.00 m (Bulges 34.80 m) x 9.15 m

Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2,039.28lbs / 925.00kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
6 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (2x3 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (6x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1944 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
24 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1943 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17,477 lbs / 7,928 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 104

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 383.86 ft / 117.00 m 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 229.66 ft / 70.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
151.25 ft / 46.10 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.77" / 45 mm 383.86 ft / 117.00 m 26.90 ft / 8.20 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.7" / 450 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -

- Armour deck: 5.31" / 135 mm, Conning tower: 17.72" / 450 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 115,076 shp / 85,847 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9,049 tons

Complement:
1,445 - 1,879

Cost:
£14.053 million / $56.212 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,831 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 12,024 tons, 29.2 %
- Belts: 2,937 tons, 7.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 677 tons, 1.6 %
- Armament: 2,219 tons, 5.4 %
- Armour Deck: 5,736 tons, 13.9 %
- Conning Tower: 455 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 3,441 tons, 8.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,793 tons, 40.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,876 tons, 16.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 225 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
63,010 lbs / 28,581 Kg = 37.3 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 10.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 18.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.70 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.44 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Stern: 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
- Average freeboard: 21.69 ft / 6.61 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.9 %
Waterplane Area: 58,336 Square feet or 5,420 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 211 lbs/sq ft or 1,029 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.38
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Ships in Class:
- Richelieu
- Courbet

5

Saturday, September 7th 2013, 6:50pm

While you know things better for the French Navy, I would assume that the 57mm guns on the Richelieu would be the same as the ones on the other ships you posted, yet on Richelieu they're Anti-aircraft and on the others automatic...

6

Saturday, September 7th 2013, 6:55pm

Oh... you're right, I seem to have overlooked that.

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Richelieu-class, French Battleship laid down 1931, refitted 1945[/SIZE]

Displacement:
34,312 t light; 36,163 t standard; 41,190 t normal; 45,212 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
780.83 ft / 764.76 ft x 104.99 ft (Bulges 114.17 ft) x 30.02 ft (normal load)
238.00 m / 233.10 m x 32.00 m (Bulges 34.80 m) x 9.15 m

Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2,039.28lbs / 925.00kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
6 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (2x3 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1945 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 1945 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17,505 lbs / 7,940 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 104

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 383.86 ft / 117.00 m 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 229.66 ft / 70.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
151.25 ft / 46.10 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.77" / 45 mm 383.86 ft / 117.00 m 26.90 ft / 8.20 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.7" / 450 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.20" / 5 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.20" / 5 mm

- Armour deck: 5.31" / 135 mm, Conning tower: 17.72" / 450 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 115,076 shp / 85,847 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9,049 tons

Complement:
1,445 - 1,879

Cost:
£14.040 million / $56.161 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,827 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 12,018 tons, 29.2 %
- Belts: 2,937 tons, 7.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 677 tons, 1.6 %
- Armament: 2,212 tons, 5.4 %
- Armour Deck: 5,736 tons, 13.9 %
- Conning Tower: 455 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 3,441 tons, 8.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,801 tons, 40.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,878 tons, 16.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 225 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
62,964 lbs / 28,560 Kg = 37.3 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 10.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 18.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.70 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.44 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Stern: 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
- Average freeboard: 21.69 ft / 6.61 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.9 %
Waterplane Area: 58,336 Square feet or 5,420 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 211 lbs/sq ft or 1,029 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.38
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

7

Saturday, September 7th 2013, 6:58pm

When you scoll down and look at the ships, it kinda sticks out. Also the fact that, unlike the previously posted vessels, the Richelieu does not have 20mm guns.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Sep 7th 2013, 6:58pm)


8

Saturday, September 7th 2013, 7:14pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
When you scoll down and look at the ships, it kinda sticks out. Also the fact that, unlike the previously posted vessels, the Richelieu does not have 20mm guns.

Yeah, the original didn't have anything smaller than 40mm, and I never bothered adding any. I generally see 20mm AA as a bit of a waste in any case; I usually add either 15mm MGs or 20mm to cruisers and such mainly as close-in-defense against swimmers, small boats, seagulls, that sort of stuff.

9

Saturday, September 7th 2013, 7:25pm

Yes those damn recreational swimmers are quite a plague, aren't they? :D

Don't forget unarmored ships. A cargo ship with a lot of dead bodies is more vaiuable than a cargo ship underneath the waves.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

  • Send private message

10

Sunday, September 8th 2013, 12:02am

RE: French Ships for 1945

Those main guns - are these twins simed as triples?


Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Some proposals. Some are really on my build plan, while others are just ideas at the moment.

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Marseillaise-class, French Heavy Cruiser laid down 1945[/SIZE]

Displacement:
16,600 t light; 17,416 t standard; 20,346 t normal; 22,690 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
730.14 ft / 721.78 ft x 75.46 ft x 23.62 ft (normal load)
222.55 m / 220.00 m x 23.00 m x 7.20 m

Armament:
12 - 7.87" / 200 mm guns (4x3 guns), 286.60lbs / 130.00kg shells, 1945 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1945 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 1945 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,946 lbs / 1,790 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 5.12" / 130 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 138,729 shp / 103,492 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,274 tons

Complement:
851 - 1,107

Cost:
£10.280 million / $41.121 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 496 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 4,085 tons, 20.1 %
- Belts: 1,406 tons, 6.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 862 tons, 4.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,735 tons, 8.5 %
- Conning Tower: 82 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 3,503 tons, 17.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,613 tons, 37.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,746 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 903 tons, 4.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
28,642 lbs / 12,992 Kg = 117.3 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.553
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.58 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.43 ft / 7.75 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 20.51 ft / 6.25 m
- Average freeboard: 22.22 ft / 6.77 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 186.7 %
Waterplane Area: 39,706 Square feet or 3,689 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 636 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Breakdown of Miscellaneous Weights:
- 528 tons for automatic 20cm turrets (128t each)
- 375 tons for normal CA stuff.

Ships in Class:
- Marseillaise
- Suffren
- Amiral Charner
- Duguay-Trouin

11

Sunday, September 8th 2013, 12:13am

RE: French Ships for 1945

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Those main guns - are these twins simed as triples?

No, they're triple turrets.

12

Sunday, September 8th 2013, 7:16am

128t a turret seems a reasonable price to pay for automated loading. I went with 150t/turret for the Philadelphia's (also simmed as triples not triples in twins). I took that number from the historical difference in weight between the historical Baltimore (303t) and the historical Des Moines (451t), then multiplied it by 4 to come up with 600t for automated loading.

Do you have RoF numbers Brock?

13

Sunday, September 8th 2013, 10:45am

Some interesting ships here.

The Marseillaise class looks formidable and doesn't go over my 16,000+ ton CA cut-off point. These would be dangerous ships and could overwhelm any Super-CA. They remind me of my previous 7.5in auto CA ideas.

The Inflexible looks familiar in some respects. You've traded extra guns for splinter protection. Comes out roughly like the Revolution but without the same doctrine behind it. This is a more classic light scout cruiser.

The Du Chayla is a classic CL and one with formidable AA firepower and decent armour. The heavy torpedo armament is also interesting. The Richelieu refit looks good too.

My only remaining general comments are; of course some of these are concepts and others are going to be built. Has France the resources to develop three new automatic guns of 200mm, 152mm and 138mm at the same time? Canada of course has spread her programme over many years, the USA seems to be catching up with new automatic guns in the 8in and 6in classes. Britain has confined herself to just two projects. Is there scope to merge the 152mm and 138mm, perhaps a new calibre suited to DP work?
The only other question, as with Jason, is what are the RoF numbers. Previous discussions have shown that beyond mount weight this is the most important aspect of any automatic gun assessment by everyone else.

14

Sunday, September 8th 2013, 10:48pm

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
128t a turret seems a reasonable price to pay for automated loading. I went with 150t/turret for the Philadelphia's (also simmed as triples not triples in twins). I took that number from the historical difference in weight between the historical Baltimore (303t) and the historical Des Moines (451t), then multiplied it by 4 to come up with 600t for automated loading.

Yeah, I simmed a turret straight-up and then added 50% per turret. I very strongly dislike this 'sim twin turrets as triple' stuff, so I'd have avoided it even if I did want to use twin guns.

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
Do you have RoF numbers Brock?

I'm figuring about 7-9 RPM reliably, a bit short of what was achieved by the USN Mark 16 and the WW Canadian 7.5" auto.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
My only remaining general comments are; of course some of these are concepts and others are going to be built. Has France the resources to develop three new automatic guns of 200mm, 152mm and 138mm at the same time? Canada of course has spread her programme over many years, the USA seems to be catching up with new automatic guns in the 8in and 6in classes. Britain has confined herself to just two projects. Is there scope to merge the 152mm and 138mm, perhaps a new calibre suited to DP work?

The 200mm/L55 Modele 45 automatic has been in development for quite awhile in conjunction with Atlantis. France built their first test turret in Q3/1941, and have spent the last three years working out the bugs. The French have been more recently begun collaborating with the USN to some extent, and so are well aware of the Mark 16 design, and vice-versa.

As to the other two sets of guns, the original 138mm guns built in France were already semi-automatic, with the latter models reliably achieving twelve rounds per minute in their enclosed destroyer and light cruiser mountings. The French (Russian) 130mm gun has basically replaced both the 138mm and 152mm for the moment, given its higher rate of fire (15-18 RPM), better AA performance, and caliber convergence with all allies except Germany. The 152mm gun would have to achieve 11 RPM in order to compare on par with the 130mm in terms of weight of fire delivered. In any case, we'll see what I decide in regards to that.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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15

Sunday, September 8th 2013, 11:18pm

Can you please provide details which 138mm mount you are referring to that was semi-auto and worked reliable? Source? Very interrested I am...

16

Sunday, September 8th 2013, 11:22pm

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Can you please provide details which 138mm mount you are referring to that was semi-auto and worked reliable? Source? Very interrested I am...

It's been posted in my encyclopedia for over two years.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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17

Sunday, September 8th 2013, 11:30pm

A ok. You are talking you own ahistorical mount. Wasn't sure because the bugs were never worked out of the historical mounts.

Thanks for clarification.

18

Sunday, September 8th 2013, 11:33pm

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
A ok. You are talking you own ahistorical mount. Wasn't sure because the bugs were never worked out of the historical mounts.

That is correct. Because Agent and I were building more light craft during this period, I ended up developing the 138mm twin a bit further before replacing it with the Russian 130mm.

19

Tuesday, September 17th 2013, 12:26am

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Tonnerre, French Experimental Cruiser laid down 1944[/SIZE]

Displacement:
4,075 t light; 4,276 t standard; 5,076 t normal; 5,716 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
518.08 ft / 508.53 ft x 50.85 ft x 15.26 ft (normal load)
157.91 m / 155.00 m x 15.50 m x 4.65 m

Armament:
3 - 7.87" / 200 mm guns in single mounts, 286.60lbs / 130.00kg shells, 1944 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 1944 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1944 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 917 lbs / 416 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 190
12 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.20" / 5 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 63,206 shp / 47,152 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 7,500nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,440 tons

Complement:
299 - 390

Cost:
£3.141 million / $12.566 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 117 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 65 tons, 1.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 52 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 13 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,614 tons, 31.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,949 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,001 tons, 19.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 330 tons, 6.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,559 lbs / 1,614 Kg = 14.6 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 13.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.90 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m (15.75 ft / 4.80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Stern: 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 20.14 ft / 6.14 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 128.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.6 %
Waterplane Area: 17,139 Square feet or 1,592 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 66 lbs/sq ft or 321 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.69
- Longitudinal: 1.76
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Notes:
Each single 20cm auto turret weighs 45 tons in Springsharp. 45

Breakdown of Miscellaneous Weight:
- 45 tons for extra A turret automation
- 45 tons for extra B turret automation
- 45 tons for extra X turret automation
- 45 tons for electronics
- 17 tons for six 42G reload torpedoes
- 12 tons for six 44E torpedoes
- 13 tons for HVAC
- 108 tons for other stuff

20

Tuesday, September 17th 2013, 9:55am

Ah, the 'Special' taken to the next stage.
Not sure whether this makes as much tactical sense. 2x HMS Revolutions are designed to overwhelm a 12x6in traditional CL. 2x Tonnerre could certainly inflict serious damage upon an CA and even a super-CA but with lower sustained RoF against more barrels of a traditional 8in CA the chances are coming out more even. Saying that, this has widely spaced guns making it harder to knock out a large percentage of its firepower, but with no box protection for the magazines any hit there will be seriously fatal. But as a testbed ship the concept will look impressive in the metal, though it still hasn't got the doctrinal basis the RN has designed their 'Special' with.