WesWorld

The El Jefe class heavy cruisers are based more on the Inigo Montoya class heavy cruisers than the Santa Maria class armored cruisers they will actually replace in service.

Although Iberia contemplated something based on the Peruvian Almirante Grau, a few considerations ruled against it:

-Easier logistics from using the same 210mm gun as in the Montoyas

-The quantity of fire is probably better suited to combat against swarms of unarmored, fastish Mexican destroyers than lesser numbers of heavier guns.

-Theoretically, an easier swap-out of triple 210mm for mostly-hypothetical twin automatic 210mm weapons at some future point (Iberia is probably contemplating research in this direction in 1942).

-Expense of a Grau-type ship with an acceptable level of protection.

The class gives up some deck armor, some secondary armament, a half-knot of speed and lesser shell weight to the American Los Angeles class, all of which are considered acceptable. It does have a taller belt, and the light AA is considered to be better.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1942

Displacement:
16,737 t light; 17,884 t standard; 19,887 t normal; 21,489 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
734.98 ft / 718.50 ft x 78.74 ft x 24.61 ft (normal load)
224.02 m / 219.00 m x 24.00 m x 7.50 m

Armament:
12 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (4x3 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,293 lbs / 1,947 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 467.03 ft / 142.35 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 105,638 shp / 78,806 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,605 tons

Complement:
836 - 1,088

Cost:
£9.055 million / $36.220 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 537 tons, 2.7 %
Armour: 5,315 tons, 26.7 %
- Belts: 2,025 tons, 10.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,149 tons, 5.8 %
- Armour Deck: 2,141 tons, 10.8 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,760 tons, 13.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,826 tons, 39.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,150 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,326 lbs / 14,663 Kg = 114.4 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 3.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.13 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.23 ft / 8.30 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Stern: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 21.80 ft / 6.64 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 190.5 %
Waterplane Area: 39,199 Square feet or 3,642 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 664 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.21
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Mmm, I see the secondary/tertiary weapon armor is off, so that'll get a tweak.

Very Temeraire-ish, I think. I like it.

I question the number of main battery gun shells, however. I've never seen any historical 8" armed ships which carried more than 150-180 rounds per gun, though I can't double-check that at the moment.

New repo-oiler to support fleet lunges from Iberia to the Caribbean or the Pacific. A few hundred tonnes of misc. weight will be undeway oiling gear, a hundred might go to passenger/medical facilities, and the rest will largely be stores.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1942

Displacement:
5,903 t light; 6,285 t standard; 15,839 t normal; 23,481 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
508.60 ft / 492.13 ft x 75.46 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
155.02 m / 150.00 m x 23.00 m x 7.00 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 317 lbs / 144 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 21,002 shp / 15,667 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 64,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 17,196 tons

Complement:
705 - 917

Cost:
£2.015 million / $8.062 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 40 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 40 tons, 0.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 40 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 549 tons, 3.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,808 tons, 24.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 9,936 tons, 62.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,467 tons, 9.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
77,289 lbs / 35,058 Kg = 273.5 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 10.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.54
Metacentric height 6.8 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 12.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.650
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.52 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.23 ft / 8.30 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m (15.09 ft / 4.60 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 15.09 ft / 4.60 m (22.97 ft / 7.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.09 ft / 4.60 m (22.97 ft / 7.00 m before break)
- Stern: 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Average freeboard: 19.76 ft / 6.02 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 25.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.7 %
Waterplane Area: 28,448 Square feet or 2,643 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 542 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 93 lbs/sq ft or 456 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Very Temeraire-ish, I think. I like it.

I question the number of main battery gun shells, however. I've never seen any historical 8" armed ships which carried more than 150-180 rounds per gun, though I can't double-check that at the moment.

Noted. It might come down when I tweak the weapon armor.

The "Battle" type CLAA have been produced in quantity, but they're a little small and a little delicate.

A new, larger type - with higher hull strength - will trade speed and light weapons for additional DP guns and improved protection. Apart from being effective in protecting Iberian capital units, they should also be rather unpleasant for attacking light forces facing ~150 x 130 mm radar-controlled shells a minute.

A run of eight is figured for 1943-44, with an option to add more later.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1943

Displacement:
6,283 t light; 6,649 t standard; 7,749 t normal; 8,629 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
540.69 ft / 524.93 ft x 52.49 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
164.80 m / 160.00 m x 16.00 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1943 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1943 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1943 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 902 lbs / 409 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 341.21 ft / 104.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 69,638 shp / 51,950 Kw = 32.50 kts
Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,980 tons

Complement:
412 - 536

Cost:
£3.708 million / $14.831 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 113 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 1,334 tons, 17.2 %
- Belts: 550 tons, 7.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 88 tons, 1.1 %
- Armour Deck: 695 tons, 9.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,799 tons, 23.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,787 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,466 tons, 18.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 251 tons, 3.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,066 lbs / 4,566 Kg = 150.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.26 ft / 7.70 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Stern: 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Average freeboard: 19.14 ft / 5.83 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.9 %
Waterplane Area: 19,093 Square feet or 1,774 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 421 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.73
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

I don't know if the lack of armor protection for the conning tower is deliberate or not; if an oversight, you might want to check that.

Beyond that, they look a vast improvement over their predecessors. One thought might be how all those DP and AA guns are to be controlled - the USN found that the Atlantas (with six twin 5in DP) could have really done without a turret in exchange for more HA/LA DCTs. Just sayin...

That's an oversight, so I may give that a second look.

This'll be the first six-turret CLAA in Iberian service, so I suspect they're not going to get a feel for "insufficient directors" until they've done some trials and shoots. Perhaps modifications will be made down the line or the design tweaked for a new sub-class.

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
This'll be the first six-turret CLAA in Iberian service, so I suspect they're not going to get a feel for "insufficient directors" until they've done some trials and shoots. Perhaps modifications will be made down the line or the design tweaked for a new sub-class.

Okay - I'd buy that line of reasoning; the USN only discovered it in hindsight.

I can't help it, but your super-CA design isn't worth it.

On round about 18,000 tons the South Africans build the Radiance class in 1934 (!) which features 8x28cm, heavier armor and more speed. Broadweight is 2,8 tons versus 1,9 tons. Misc weight and range is lower, though. I'd take a Radiance over your design any day. The Iberian vessel has no imune zone at all while the vitals of RSAN Radiance are save between 10,000m and 27,000m...

Why torpedos on such a vessel? What are 4 TT per side good for?

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
I can't help it, but your super-CA design isn't worth it.

On round about 18,000 tons the South Africans build the Radiance class in 1934 (!) which features 8x28cm, heavier armor and more speed. Broadweight is 2,8 tons versus 1,9 tons. Misc weight and range is lower, though. I'd take a Radiance over your design any day. The Iberian vessel has no imune zone at all while the vitals of RSAN Radiance are save between 10,000m and 27,000m...

Why torpedos on such a vessel? What are 4 TT per side good for?

I think a lot of the difference is due to the weight Iberia's assigning for range - 3,605 tons versus 2,577 tons. Even though you declare that the Radiance has better armour, it actually has less of it by weight - (5,264 tons versus 5,315 tons) because the main belt, although thicker, is not as long nor as tall.

If the objective here was to create a fast pocket battleship, then I agree - the Radiance might be slightly better. But against most of Iberia's prospective opponents, I think I prefer this ship. Even though the armour is a bit weaker, it covers more of the ship, and in my opinion that's the better choice, since most prospective opponents in Mexico and China carry guns of 6" or less.

Hey, I just noticed... you're putting torpedo tubes on your oiler?

I somehow think that is an error...

Argh.

Yes, I didn't clear all fields when I finished the CL and moved to the oiler...

...that or she's secretly a Q-ship.

I don't buy your argument. If opponents will be cruisers with 6" armament first place, why build a 18kts super-CA at all? A standard CA of about 12,000 tons can carry enough armour to be save against 15cm guns at common battle ranges...

So in fact, I am missing two things - the rational behind building a super-CA at all, and the idea behind building it as proposed.

I understand Iberia may prefer number of barrels over size of barrel - but on 18kts you can mount 12x24cm plus decent armour.

Just to give an impression of what I think is possible:

CCA42A, Iberian Super Cruiser laid down 1942

Displacement:
17.106 t light; 17.950 t standard; 19.945 t normal; 21.541 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
704,39 ft / 688,98 ft x 72,83 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
214,70 m / 210,00 m x 22,20 m x 8,00 m

Armament:
12 - 9,45" / 240 mm guns (4x3 guns), 440,92lbs / 200,00kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns (8x2 guns), 63,93lbs / 29,00kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
16 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5,65lbs / 2,56kg shells, 1942 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
20 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (14 mounts), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 12 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6.409 lbs / 2.907 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7,87" / 200 mm 442,91 ft / 135,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 99% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8,66" / 220 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 7,87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1,38" / 35 mm 0,98" / 25 mm 1,38" / 35 mm
3rd: 0,98" / 25 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 0,98" / 25 mm
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3,15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 1,18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 110.000 shp / 82.060 Kw = 32,13 kts
Range 12.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3.591 tons

Complement:
838 - 1.090

Cost:
£10,465 million / $41,860 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 766 tons, 3,8%
Armour: 5.424 tons, 27,2%
- Belts: 1.920 tons, 9,6%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 1.401 tons, 7,0%
- Armour Deck: 2.084 tons, 10,4%
- Conning Tower: 19 tons, 0,1%
Machinery: 2.874 tons, 14,4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.943 tons, 39,8%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.838 tons, 14,2%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27.243 lbs / 12.357 Kg = 64,6 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 2,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,04
Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m
Roll period: 16,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,91
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,530
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,46 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29,98 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29,53 ft / 9,00 m
- Forecastle (35%): 21,00 ft / 6,40 m
- Mid (50%): 21,00 ft / 6,40 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 21,00 ft / 6,40 m
- Stern: 21,00 ft / 6,40 m
- Average freeboard: 22,19 ft / 6,76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77,2%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 170,7%
Waterplane Area: 35.769 Square feet or 3.323 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 702 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,38
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

I think that's actually a pretty decent start, although I'd note the miscellaneous weight isn't very high and the stability is distressingly low. I at least would call it a contender...

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Argh.

Yes, I didn't clear all fields when I finished the CL and moved to the oiler...

...that or she's secretly a Q-ship.

If Perdy was still around, I *would* believe that.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
I think that's actually a pretty decent start, although I'd note the miscellaneous weight isn't very high and the stability is distressingly low. I at least would call it a contender...

Well, it was a quick and dirty attempt done in a few minutes. Tweaking is welcome. Note however, that I don't think one needs 300ts of misc weight on a cruiser. Stability is a tad bit low but good enough for a start. At least the vessel does not turn turtle automatically. ;o)

More of an issue to me is the low amount of main gun ammo. 120 shells is not much, though I used heavier than standard shells (200kg). Meanwhile I modified the design slightly to have 200 shells per barrel, resulting in a slightly thinner armour but little other effect.

[EDIT]I should note that the second attempt got stability at 1,07. Personally I feel save with anything above 1,05. Others may think different.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
I don't buy your argument. If opponents will be cruisers with 6" armament first place, why build a 18kts super-CA at all? A standard CA of about 12,000 tons can carry enough armour to be save against 15cm guns at common battle ranges...

So in fact, I am missing two things - the rational behind building a super-CA at all, and the idea behind building it as proposed.

The notion wasn't to build a super-CA, but a CA. The type is growing as of late, it seems.

The protection's at 8" to be consistent with its own battery, and to provide protection if it does encounter hostile CAs in turn.

The 12x240mm design is certainly interesting, and I'll contemplate playing with it some more.

The torpedos are there for the same reason many cruisers carry torpedos. I'm not really sure why they would not be present.

This is a 25% refit to the Inigo Montoya class CA, which is considered a reasonably effective treaty-era cruiser. Objectives of the refit are:

-Extend the belt to cover the important bits of the ship (strangely not done when built)

-Mid-life refit

-Improve AA armament; replace triple 57mm with twins, replace HMGs with 25mm autocannon.

-Replace electronics and install radar.

It's a pricey refit at 2,656 t each, but worth the cost, I think.

My name is Inigo Montoya. You invaded my island. Prepare to sink, laid down 1923

Displacement:
10,623 t light; 11,133 t standard; 11,980 t normal; 12,657 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
644.33 ft / 610.24 ft x 67.59 ft x 20.01 ft (normal load)
196.39 m / 186.00 m x 20.60 m x 6.10 m

Armament:
8 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (4x2 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1923 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (4x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1923 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1923 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1923 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,895 lbs / 1,313 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 160
16 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 396.65 ft / 120.90 m 9.88 ft / 3.01 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.30" / 160 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 82,001 shp / 61,173 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,524 tons

Complement:
572 - 744

Cost:
£3.082 million / $12.328 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 362 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 2,376 tons, 19.8 %
- Belts: 778 tons, 6.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 497 tons, 4.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,048 tons, 8.8 %
- Conning Tower: 53 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,741 tons, 22.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,999 tons, 41.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,357 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 145 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,512 lbs / 6,582 Kg = 51.4 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.508
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.03 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.39 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.98 ft / 6.70 m (15.42 ft / 4.70 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.42 ft / 4.70 m
- Stern: 15.42 ft / 4.70 m
- Average freeboard: 20.28 ft / 6.18 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.9 %
Waterplane Area: 28,791 Square feet or 2,675 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 118 lbs/sq ft or 574 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.31
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
It's a pricey refit at 2,656 t each, but worth the cost, I think.

Cheaper than most of the refits I've done on my CAs! Indochine was the cheapest at 3017t, while Nouvelle-Calédonie is getting a 8601t overhaul...