WesWorld

So here's what I think is going to be happening in Iberia in 1942 and 1943 - this is a general heads-up for you guys to plan around. Quarterly reports will come later, once I have SS2 reports in hand. That may take a few weeks.

I don't see a need to tip the hand for 1944 just yet.

Previous lay-downs:

BB Jupiter and Saturno are going to be 12x15, 30 kts ships; they will complete in late 1945.

BB Urano and Neptuno will be halted, then scrapped on the way at about 10% complete, the Armada will cite an urgent and persistent need to focus resources elsewhere.

Other CLAA and SS will complete over the course of 1942.

Refits:

Eight of ten CAs will get 25% refits, including radar and modest lengthening of their currently too-short belts. The others will go in early 1945.

All three La Luna BBL will get 25% refits.

The six newer carriers, a number of CL (San Hainando, Hasta, Teide, Avada) and all active destroyers will receive 5% refits for radar. Some of the older Iberian cans will get 15% life-extension refits.

Scrapping

All four Portugal class BB, the Angola class CL, and the first Santiago de Cuba CL will be scrapped. Guns may be retained for shore batteries.

New Builds - all guestimates here.

Four CA - 15,000 t, 12x21cm (not automatics). Replacements for the Santa Marias and El Cid.

Four CLAA - 6,000 t, 12x13cm. Replacements for older CL.

Six replenishment oilders - 6,000 t, but built to civvie standards.

Four depot ships - 8,400 t, but built to civvie standards.

Four depot ships - 3,600 t, but built to civvie standards.

Two repair ships - 8,000 t, but built to civvie standards.

Seven netlayers - 500 t

Fourteen harbour tugs - 400 t

Four LST - 1000 t

Fourteen LCT - 300 t

Twenty-eight LCM - 25 t

Some basic assumptions:

-Airpower will slow down enemy ACs enough for capital units...if they don't finish the job outright. Doesn't have to be naval air - I suspect a lot of early fighting against Mexico or China would be defensive, under own land-based air support.

-So the two BB that will complete will be fully operable with the Mercurios, and the additional size dedicated to bringing more barrels into play.

-Iberia seems to like CAs and CLAA, but not so much CL, so I'll stick with that distinction for the future.

-Small depot ships and netlayers let Iberian overseas forces operate away from their bases. Given that there's only one in San Hainando - in range of Chinese aircraft - this would be useful.

-Larger tenders and additional repo-oilers will support a big lunge by the Iberian home fleet to the Caribbean or Pacific as required.

-Smaller amphibs allow coastal movement and reinforcement of territories - particularly relevent in the Caribbean given that land forces are dispersed across a few places.

These strike me as reasonable assumptions and intermediate goals. Of course, once you start simming everything, I could see the details in a narrow range. When you get to 1944 is when things ought to get interesting.

I'm looking forward to it.

Sounds all good. I just don't buy those new CA. On 15,000ts I got 9x25cm main guns. El Cid featured 24cm guns, so a similar caliber (and ammunition and rigs and tools to build more) is available - why don't you go with it?

I'm surprised the Portugals aren't shedualed for refits/rebuilds, still quite usefull vessels if you ask me.

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Originally posted by HoOmAn
Sounds all good. I just don't buy those new CA. On 15,000ts I got 9x25cm main guns. El Cid featured 24cm guns, so a similar caliber (and ammunition and rigs and tools to build more) is available - why don't you go with it?

And Iberia also built a 10" / 254mm gun for Peru in 1934.

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And Iberia also built a 10" / 254mm gun for Peru in 1934.

Almirante Grau => 3T3x254 on a 14300t hull - 32kts

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Originally posted by Jefgte

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And Iberia also built a 10" / 254mm gun for Peru in 1934.

Almirante Grau => 3T3x254 on a 14300t hull - 32kts

Yes. The one Peruvian ship that Chile covets.

They really wanted to get it as a war capture back in 1937 so they could park it next to Huascar. I think it'd look pretty sweet there...

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Sounds all good. I just don't buy those new CA. On 15,000ts I got 9x25cm main guns. El Cid featured 24cm guns, so a similar caliber (and ammunition and rigs and tools to build more) is available - why don't you go with it?

It's not out of the question, but my default assumption again is that the Iberians are going for barrels over shellweight. We'll see how the actual simming goes.

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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
I'm surprised the Portugals aren't shedualed for refits/rebuilds, still quite usefull vessels if you ask me.

The class is over a decade past the point where they should've received a mid-life refit - but did not. I imagine they're in poor material condition.

I suspect I'd need a 50% refit to improve their deck armor to the point that they're not dead meat against modern capital ship guns or aircraft bombs. That's around 60,000 t of material being spent on slow thirty-year old battleships in the 1940s.

I thought it made more sense to stick radar on the slightly older Carlos V class - which did receive a comprehensive refit in the mid twenties. Let the four Mercurios replace the Portugals, the two Jupiters (and possibly a couple of flat-tops) replace the Carlos V...

By the way theres a bunch of light ship that Iberia built that where never placed in the encyclopedia. And also, if you could have one of the two CAs not refitted be the Zorro. Naming an Iberian ship after a Mexican freedom fighter who fought for Mexican Independence against the Spaniards is just weird.

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Originally posted by Desertfox
By the way theres a bunch of light ship that Iberia built that where never placed in the encyclopedia. And also, if you could have one of the two CAs not refitted be the Zorro. Naming an Iberian ship after a Mexican freedom fighter who fought for Mexican Independence against the Spaniards is just weird.

I suspect that the vessel was named in honor of this little creature rather than this character

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Originally posted by Desertfox
By the way theres a bunch of light ship that Iberia built that where never placed in the encyclopedia. And also, if you could have one of the two CAs not refitted be the Zorro. Naming an Iberian ship after a Mexican freedom fighter who fought for Mexican Independence against the Spaniards is just weird.

Not as weird as the class named for fictional magical spells in a book whose author hasn't even been born in WW yet.

Having looked at your design for a fleet replenishment ship I do have one thought - you plan for six at the present time. That allows you a maximum lift of about 90,000 tons of fuel oil to support any major foray away from home waters. Is that going to be enough?

I presume you are planning such distant voyages in expectation of arrival at well-stocked overseas bases; if not, the question becomes more important. I know from my calculations for Germany that basically I will never have enough tankers for everything, though I keep converting and constructing them.

And working on a scheme to keep the replenishment tankers filled is also important. Germany has used commercial tankers under charter to its Etappendienst for this but is now converting somewhat slower tankers for this role.

These are long-term things you might want to consider at some point.

Indeed. There are several smaller oilers - the "Glugs" in service already, so that adds somecapacity.

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Originally posted by The Rock Doctor

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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
I'm surprised the Portugals aren't shedualed for refits/rebuilds, still quite usefull vessels if you ask me.

The class is over a decade past the point where they should've received a mid-life refit - but did not. I imagine they're in poor material condition.

I suspect I'd need a 50% refit to improve their deck armor to the point that they're not dead meat against modern capital ship guns or aircraft bombs. That's around 60,000 t of material being spent on slow thirty-year old battleships in the 1940s.

I thought it made more sense to stick radar on the slightly older Carlos V class - which did receive a comprehensive refit in the mid twenties. Let the four Mercurios replace the Portugals, the two Jupiters (and possibly a couple of flat-tops) replace the Carlos V...

You could also use the turrets from the portugals, simply refurbish and perhaps increase elevation, which SS doesn't recognise anyway.