WesWorld

Shipyards sizes/Qty of hull

1x220m SW => 3 hulls
1x195m SW => 5 hulls
1x170m SW => 5 hulls
4x120m SW => 32 hulls
8x70m SW => 30 hulls

- Build tall huls, sup to 170m, is not a good option for the next years, I think.
- Update 2x70mSW to 120m is interresting & economicaly possible.
- Made studies on 120m hulls are the actual choices for Peru.

Jef

8000t, Peru PBB1 project laid down 1945

Displacement:
8 000 t light; 8 438 t standard; 9 028 t normal; 9 499 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
392.92 ft / 387.14 ft x 68.24 ft x 22.78 ft (normal load)
119.76 m / 118.00 m x 20.80 m x 6.94 m

Armament:
6 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1945 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1945 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1945 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 3 454 lbs / 1 567 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 130
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.06" / 230 mm 236.22 ft / 72.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 2.76" / 70 mm 131.23 ft / 40.00 m 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
19.69 ft / 6.00 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 2.76" / 70 mm 236.22 ft / 72.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 236.22 ft / 72.00 m 19.49 ft / 5.94 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 9.06" / 230 mm
2nd: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 9.06" / 230 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 18 000 shp / 13 428 Kw = 21.74 kts
Range 10 000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 061 tons

Complement:
462 - 601

Cost:
£4.880 million / $19.520 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 432 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 3 665 tons, 40.6 %
- Belts: 1 335 tons, 14.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 268 tons, 3.0 %
- Armament: 612 tons, 6.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1 365 tons, 15.1 %
- Conning Tower: 85 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 455 tons, 5.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 318 tons, 36.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 028 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16 401 lbs / 7 439 Kg = 32.8 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 3.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.525
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.53 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.59 ft / 6.58 m
- Forecastle (22 %): 18.31 ft / 5.58 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.03 ft / 4.58 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 15.03 ft / 4.58 m
- Stern: 15.03 ft / 4.58 m
- Average freeboard: 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.7 %
Waterplane Area: 18 742 Square feet or 1 741 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 601 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.89
- Longitudinal: 2.65
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

30tons for radar
80 tons reserved for aircraft
20 tons reserved for futur growth

I find this design quite anachronistic. Compared with modern vessels, its speed is far too low - it could not run down any modern cruiser and it could not escape from anything capable of harming it.

I am uncertain what PBB is meant to refer to, but pocket battleship comes to mind; if so, this design is far too small, and far too slow, for the role of surface raider.

I have also 15000t coastal BB project:
2T3x350+4T2x120-21kts-B300.

15000t is too big for my little budget.

Well, it's an interesting design, that's for certain...

Quoted

Originally posted by Jefgte
Shipyards sizes/Qty of hull

1x220m SW => 3 hulls
1x195m SW => 5 hulls
1x170m SW => 5 hulls
4x120m SW => 32 hulls
8x70m SW => 30 hulls

I don't understand this.... :o(

Quoted

I don't understand this.... :o(

Thats the repair possibilities.

If I have a BC & CV damaged, I could repair just one because, I have 1 x 220m SW dispo.

Jef

Those figures would be determined by the nature of the repairs to be performed and the time necessary to repair a particular displacement of ship, would they not?

I may add that slip ways do not help if we a talking repairs. The number of docks is what limits your capabilities to cope with damaged vessels....

An other project of Pocket BC (2T3)
a kind of economical 1934 Almirante Grau.

Protection is identical but the ship is 10955t & 30kts, enough to escort a Carriers force.





PBC, Peru PBC laid down 1945

Displacement:
10 955 t light; 11 521 t standard; 12 304 t normal; 12 930 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
632.78 ft / 623.36 ft x 65.62 ft x 20.60 ft (normal load)
192.87 m / 190.00 m x 20.00 m x 6.28 m

Armament:
6 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1945 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1945 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread
4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1945 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3 687 lbs / 1 672 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 436.35 ft / 133.00 m 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
Ends: 2.76" / 70 mm 144.36 ft / 44.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
42.65 ft / 13.00 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 1.57" / 40 mm 360.89 ft / 110.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 436.35 ft / 133.00 m 17.32 ft / 5.28 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 1.57" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -


- Armour deck: 2.76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 63 275 shp / 47 203 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10 000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 392 tons

Complement:
574 - 747

Cost:
£6.809 million / $27.236 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 461 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 3 572 tons, 29.7 %
- Belts: 1 201 tons, 10.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 440 tons, 3.7 %
- Armament: 441 tons, 3.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1 445 tons, 12.0 %
- Conning Tower: 45 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1 598 tons, 13.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 925 tons, 40.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 334 tons, 11.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
18 279 lbs / 8 291 Kg = 36.6 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 3.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.61 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.89 ft / 7.89 m
- Forecastle (19 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.47 ft / 5.02 m
- Average freeboard: 18.01 ft / 5.49 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.3 %
Waterplane Area: 28 340 Square feet or 2 633 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 579 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.14
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

I'm not sure the beam is sufficient for a TDS. That usually requires ships with at least 23m+ beam to be sufficiently deep for protection...

I dare ask: Why do you start with the big designs? Won't they put too much strain on your ship building industry?

It might be an option to focus on the small and medium stuff first - and if there is material left for use you can use it for a carrier escort as above...

Quoted

I'm not sure the beam is sufficient for a TDS. That usually requires ships with at least 23m+ beam to be sufficiently deep for protection...

Graf Spee with 21.6m beam had 40mm BKH.

So that is a project, not a final design...

Quoted

I dare ask: Why do you start with the big designs? Won't they put too much strain on your ship building industry? It might be an option to focus on the small and medium stuff first - and if there is material left for use you can use it for a carrier escort as above...

Peruvian building Plan is working in my head.

I post when I have an idea...

Jef

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
I dare ask: Why do you start with the big designs? Won't they put too much strain on your ship building industry?

It might be an option to focus on the small and medium stuff first - and if there is material left for use you can use it for a carrier escort as above...

My approach with Canada has always focused on getting the larger needs laid down first, simply because of the build times involved.

According to Chilean Naval Intelligence (which keeps close track of these things), the Peruvian budget for 1944 is pretty tight. With two factories dedicated to infrastructure, and continuing payments on ships already laid down, Peru will end the 1944 financial year with only 1,462t, presuming no new craft are laid down...

Chilean estimates (presuming no new construction):
Q2 surplus: 995t
Q3 surplus: 349t
Q4 surplus: 1,462t

Quoted

...(which keeps close track of these things)...

With double budget, Chilean could be relax about Peruvian 1945 Plan.

Quoted

...Peru will end the 1944 financial year with only 1,462t, presuming no new craft are laid down...

...That's why Plan start in 1945

Jef

These 8000 tons carriers are in the Plan

Atahualpa - Inca Roca, Peru CV laid down 1945 & 1946

Displacement:
8 000 t light; 8 222 t standard; 8 855 t normal; 9 362 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
559.32 ft / 554.46 ft x 72.83 ft x 15.99 ft (normal load)
170.48 m / 169.00 m x 22.20 m x 4.87 m

Armament:
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1945 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1945 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 315 lbs / 143 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 240

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 400.26 ft / 122.00 m 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
Ends: 0.98" / 25 mm 131.23 ft / 40.00 m 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
22.97 ft / 7.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.18" / 30 mm 400.26 ft / 122.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 54 726 shp / 40 826 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10 000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 140 tons

Complement:
456 - 593

Cost:
£3.500 million / $13.999 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 39 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 1 146 tons, 12.9 %
- Belts: 257 tons, 2.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 230 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 41 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 600 tons, 6.8 %
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1 382 tons, 15.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 417 tons, 38.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 856 tons, 9.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2 015 tons, 22.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15 511 lbs / 7 036 Kg = 439.1 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.56 ft / 8.40 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Stern: 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Average freeboard: 19.89 ft / 6.06 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 220.2 %
Waterplane Area: 27 471 Square feet or 2 552 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 142 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 445 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.32
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

1800 tons for 30 aircrafts
100 tons reserve weight
85 tons for deck operations facilities - ext deck poles
30 tons radar

You're going to have problems operating jets off those small decks, Jef.

Your current carrier is ex-Italian. If you want to consult with Italy on more CVs, let me know.

Quoted

You're going to have problems operating jets off those small decks, Jef.

WW finish in 1950, so jets are not realy a priority.
However, aircraft increase in size & weight.
SS on a 195m hull could be useful to carry bigger planes.

Jef