WesWorld

Quoted

I suspect that you might want to have the secondary mounts on the side rather than the centerline, otherwise I think things will be rather crowded.

Your right Bruce, that' a SS bullet
120mm DP are side distribued
--

Quoted

I'm skeptical that you can fit 12" triple turrets on that beam. It's a tiny bit narrower than that of the Deutschland-class, yet the guns are bigger, the belt armour is doubled, the turret armour is doubled, and the ship is four knots faster (and thus requires more voluminous machinery).

http://www.deutschland-class.dk/technica…raldetails.html

Deutschland is 20.69m -
But, I could certainly increase beam to have more machinery space
--

Quoted

If you are looking for something similar to Villar and Grau, why not do a pair half-sisters? If slipways are an issue, Italy should have a appropriate way open in 1946 (aka, my 1946 plan is not yet fixed and I could make it work)

Villar & Grau are bigger (22800t & 14329t)
1946-1949 plan limit is 13900t for that ships.
Admiralty want a combat ship, not a cruiser
Shipyards are free for the building.
Thanks Snip.

Jef

Quoted

1946-1949 plan limit is 13900t for that ships.
Admiralty want a combat ship, not a cruiser

Well I think that's what you've got. A Wesworld Super-CA but without the firepower to back it up.

My 15,700 ton heavy cruisers of the Princess Royal class are 2kts slower but have equal belt, superior deck armour and heavier broadside with 12x 9.2in guns and superior AA armament. My 16,300 ton Iron Dukes have all that plus 12x 4.5in and more AA. That's as far as I go, beyond that heavy cruisers don't make sense. I know you've studied the Panzerschiff for years and obviously have quite a liking for them, but I just can't see them having any utility in Wesworld against the kind of super-heavies out on the oceans of Wesworld.

With the limited Peruvian economy, 2T3x12" on 13700t is the better choice to beat an other cruiser or super cruiser.
A lot of them had not the deck or belt armor to "Repulse" 392kg shells.


Jef

Personaly, I would say that if you are dead set on 305mm guns maybe stretching out the build plan about a year to allow for the additional tonnage for building a half-sister to Almirante Villar would be better. Fitting 6 305mm guns onto a hull as small as you are trying to invites to many compromises that detract from the overall effectiveness of the ship. If you are dead set on that hull size, maybe a armament of 9x254mm would be better, a half-sister to Almirante Grau. You would still have the ability to put a serious hurt on the majority of rebuilt treaty-era cruisers and enough volume of shell to make most ships short of full-capital units think twice about engaging.

Admiralty want big guns, not semi heavy guns.
12" in 2T3 arangement is the choice to economise weight & have a good boardside vs Cruisers.
Note that T4x305 from Almirante Villar are too heavy & need bigger ship.
Finaly:
2 x13700t PBC are in the plan, not 1 x22000 light BB
in other word:
4T3x305 (12guns) not 2T4x305 (8 guns)

Rework the 13700t Extra Heavy Cruiser with beam increasse from 21.6m to 22.15m, 6T2x120 side distribued & I add 2M4x37 AA centreline superfiring on the T3x305

Peru Extra Heavy Cruiser laid down 1946

Displacement:
13 700 t light; 14 390 t standard; 16 071 t normal; 17 416 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
655.79 ft / 639.76 ft x 72.67 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
199.88 m / 195.00 m x 22.15 m x 7.00 m

Armament:
6 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (2x3 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1946 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1946 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5 872 lbs / 2 663 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 387.14 ft / 118.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 1.42" / 36 mm 131.23 ft / 40.00 m 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
121.39 ft / 37.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.06" / 230 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 97 490 shp / 72 728 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 12 000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3 025 tons

Complement:
713 - 927

Cost:
£10.189 million / $40.755 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 734 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 3 631 tons, 22.6 %
- Belts: 1 015 tons, 6.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 824 tons, 5.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1 684 tons, 10.5 %
- Conning Tower: 108 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2 435 tons, 15.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 830 tons, 42.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 371 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22 359 lbs / 10 142 Kg = 25.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.527
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.07 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.50 ft / 6.86 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.25 ft / 5.87 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 19.25 ft / 5.87 m
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.71 ft / 6.31 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.3 %
Waterplane Area: 33 038 Square feet or 3 069 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 685 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.45
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

I add in the 1944-1945 Plan, 12x36t River Patrol Boats
24x3.6x0.85
1x37+1x20+2x13
13kts-1100nm@10kts
Misc weight: 10t for dif material, medical assistance,
complement men & troops, horses...

4 RPB based at Iquitos on Amazonas
4 RPB based at Puerto Maldonado on the Rio Madre de Dios
4 RPB based at Puno on Lago Titicaca.

These RPB are attribued to Peruvian Policia or Guardia Civili.

To be in accordance with the fleet speed, the futur 8400t carriers Atahualpa & Inca Roca are update to 32kts.

Atahualpa-Inca Roca, Peru LightCV laid down 1945

Displacement:
8 400 t light; 8 642 t standard; 9 712 t normal; 10 568 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
637.31 ft / 629.92 ft x 68.90 ft x 16.32 ft (normal load)
194.25 m / 192.00 m x 21.00 m x 4.97 m

Armament:
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1945 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1945 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 319 lbs / 145 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 472.44 ft / 144.00 m 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 131.23 ft / 40.00 m 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.18" / 30 mm 472.44 ft / 144.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 70 934 shp / 52 917 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10 000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 926 tons

Complement:
488 - 635

Cost:
£3.995 million / $15.980 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 40 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 1 278 tons, 13.2 %
- Belts: 300 tons, 3.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 271 tons, 2.8 %
- Armament: 42 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 645 tons, 6.6 %
- Conning Tower: 19 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1 791 tons, 18.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 891 tons, 40.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 312 tons, 13.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1 400 tons, 14.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17 830 lbs / 8 088 Kg = 504.8 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.92 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.56 ft / 8.40 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Stern: 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Average freeboard: 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 228.7 %
Waterplane Area: 29 522 Square feet or 2 743 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 148 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 93 lbs/sq ft or 454 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.12
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

1100 tons for 30 aircrafts
100 tons reserve weight
170 tons for deck operations facilities - ext bridge poles
30 tons radar

I'm thinking the end belts might be less useful than additional deck armor here.

That is not a stupid comment...

Thanks Rocky

Peruvian Admiralty update the design of the carriers.
New protection & armaments increase the displacement from 8400 to 9800t.

Jef

Peruvian Admiralty confirm the laid down of:
=> 9800t Escort Carrier & 13700t Cruiser in 1945.
=> 8 new Destroyers from Italia are going to be transfered to Peru & modified to DDAA in 1945-46
Artigliere - Ascari - Aviere - Bersagliere - Carabiniere - Corazziere - Camicia Nera - Fuciliere.
Names w"ll be translate to Peruvian.
=>The building of 1440t Degiano DD is stopped, the class canceled - 350t of the hull are going to be scrapp & give +52t in 1944-Q4.

CVE, Peru CVE laid down 1945

1945: Atahualpa
1947: Inca Roca

Displacement:
9 800 t light; 10 073 t standard; 11 228 t normal; 12 153 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
637.31 ft / 629.92 ft x 70.21 ft x 18.51 ft (normal load)
194.25 m / 192.00 m x 21.40 m x 5.64 m

Armament:
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1945 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1945 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 319 lbs / 145 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 465.88 ft / 142.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 465.88 ft / 142.00 m 17.72 ft / 5.40 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77 126 shp / 57 536 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10 000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2 080 tons

Complement:
545 - 709

Cost:
£4.485 million / $17.940 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 40 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 2 415 tons, 21.5 %
- Belts: 556 tons, 5.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 481 tons, 4.3 %
- Armament: 42 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1 315 tons, 11.7 %
- Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1 948 tons, 17.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 097 tons, 36.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 428 tons, 12.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1 300 tons, 11.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21 025 lbs / 9 537 Kg = 595.2 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 3.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.56 ft / 8.40 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Stern: 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Average freeboard: 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 208.7 %
Waterplane Area: 30 085 Square feet or 2 795 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 142 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 462 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

1000 tons for 30 aircrafts
100 tons reserve weight
170 tons for deck operations facilities - ext bridge poles
30 tons radar

Extra Heavy Cruiser, Peru Extra Heavy Cruiser laid down 1945

1945: Ilo
1947: Huascar

Displacement:
13 700 t light; 14 391 t standard; 16 086 t normal; 17 443 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
655.79 ft / 639.76 ft x 72.67 ft x 22.98 ft (normal load)
199.88 m / 195.00 m x 22.15 m x 7.00 m

Armament:
6 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (2x3 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.68kg shells, 1945 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1945 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5 872 lbs / 2 663 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 419.95 ft / 128.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.06" / 230 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 97 555 shp / 72 776 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 12 000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3 052 tons

Complement:
713 - 928

Cost:
£9.955 million / $39.821 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 734 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 3 576 tons, 22.2 %
- Belts: 959 tons, 6.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 824 tons, 5.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1 685 tons, 10.5 %
- Conning Tower: 108 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2 464 tons, 15.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 827 tons, 42.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 386 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22 040 lbs / 9 997 Kg = 25.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.527
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.07 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.50 ft / 6.86 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.25 ft / 5.87 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 19.25 ft / 5.87 m
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.71 ft / 6.31 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.3 %
Waterplane Area: 33 044 Square feet or 3 070 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 685 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.46
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent