WesWorld

There was an indication that such a Chosenian order would be transmitted in the clear for Iberian ships to hear it; did this happen?

Quoted

Originally posted by Daidalos
22nd August 1943

Special Directive No. 16

22-8-1943, 13:34

from: submarine command

to: all submarines operating in the Yellow Sea and China Sea


Rules of engagement are modified as follows: From the 24th of August submarine commanders are prohibited to engage unarmed merchant ships and any civilian ship sailing under Chinese flag. Excluded from this rule are: Any ship sailing under Chinese flag which is observably armed and military/troop transports of the Chinese navy.
From now on Chinese capital warships are priority targets. With Special Directive No. 16 in effect Special Directive No. 14 from the 29-6-1943 is null and void. The new limit of advance is marked by the 16th degree of latitude.

Yes.

I am careful to raise my voice on strategic goods because I haven't really been in that business yet. I rely on Kirk here. For oil, which the SAE imports from the Dutch first place (some more from the Hulf region I assume), it does not make sense to ship it to Chosen, methinks. Such move would require to sufficiently enlarge the SAE/Dutch merchant fleet bringing oil from the DEI to SAE, so ihe capacity not only covers SAE needs but also allows a reasonable quantity to be sailed back all the way to Chosen...

I don't think this is reasonable. Your take?

Other goods the SAE may ship to everybody who pays for it of course. This would include strategic resources if from SAE territorial stocks.

Quoted

Originally posted by Daidalos

Quoted

Originally posted by Daidalos
22nd August 1943

Special Directive No. 16

22-8-1943, 13:34

from: submarine command

to: all submarines operating in the Yellow Sea and China Sea


Rules of engagement are modified as follows: From the 24th of August submarine commanders are prohibited to engage unarmed merchant ships and any civilian ship sailing under Chinese flag. Excluded from this rule are: Any ship sailing under Chinese flag which is observably armed and military/troop transports of the Chinese navy.
From now on Chinese capital warships are priority targets. With Special Directive No. 16 in effect Special Directive No. 14 from the 29-6-1943 is null and void. The new limit of advance is marked by the 16th degree of latitude.

Yes.

Ahh, this is satisfactory enough to allow me to stay out of your sandbox.

Sorry for making a fuss, but considering the Dutch SLOC I've long felt an very active stand and strengthening of International Law on these issues was critical to the Dutch. This also meshed with the Dutch desire to make it very clear that should a showdown with SATSUMA come, they were armed to the teeth and ready to go.

As for strategic resources, over the years I've paid much more attention to quartermaster type issues. The UKN actually has most of what's needed. One of the very few advantages of AANM/AEGIS was access to everything needed and control of the global trade chokepoints, as well as world wide bases for commerce warfare.

Likewise, SATSUMA's east/west division and strategic resources were of interest to me for some odd reason, which is one reason the various straits that pass the DEI are commanded by shore batteries, supplemented by MAS torpedo boats, torpedo-carrying seaplane bases and nearby minewarfare squadrons...plus gunboats and coast guard forces..

Hmm, need to double check but in 1943/44 mica was found on Sulawesi by the Japanese. Which is another strategic mineral- needed for period electronics

Quoted

For oil, which the SAE imports from the Dutch first place (some more from the Hulf region I assume), it does not make sense to ship it to Chosen, methinks. Such move would require to sufficiently enlarge the SAE/Dutch merchant fleet bringing oil from the DEI to SAE, so ihe capacity not only covers SAE needs but also allows a reasonable quantity to be sailed back all the way to Chosen...

At this point the supplies from Saud should be picking up. Covert Dutch support during the Asir incident and overt support since has led to greater oil exploration starting a couple years earlier, so Saudi oil production should be appropriate for ~1946 or so. As for what SAE does with supplies originally sourced in Kongo or the Netherlands is no concern of the Dutch unless someone's shooting at us with it.

If the latest news out of the Korean Peninsula is a true sample of the latest developments there, I am deeply disturbed by what it foreshadows.

I share these concerns too.

Probably historical in a sense but what is this war actually about? Chosen fakes an attack and goes on the rampage and then goes off on a murderous killing spree. Why? The aim? The result?

It's interesting to have a "bad boy" player but this seems to just be playing the "bad boy" for the sake of it. Still puzzling what the weird tank dream had to do with anything too.

I could look at the weekly casualties and losses and predict when Chosen will run out of planes and tanks and manpower but the willpower isn't there.

It'll be interesting to see if this news becomes known to the world community.

That photo is grainy/fuzzy enough not to strongly bother me, but I'd advise discretion with any further atrocities.

Words are enough.

Is it really neccessary to post that kind of photo.

Quoted

Originally posted by Jefgte
Words are enough.

Is it really neccessary to post that kind of photo.

This.

I think a link to the picture would have been better with a warning regarding the contents of the photo. Especially for those with a weak stomach.

Quoted

... Especially for those with a weak stomach.

answer deleted...

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
I think a link to the picture would have been better with a warning regarding the contents of the photo. Especially for those with a weak stomach.

And also for those of us on work computers.

Speaking as a moderator, I'd strongly urge you to link any further things like this.

As someone who's seen nasty stuff like this before I'ts not intirely shocking but as others have said links with warnings may be more appropriate in the future.

I've gone ahead and changed this to a link in order to remove the image.

Thanks Brock, I wasn't sure myself if a picture of this kind is really necessary (though it is one of the rather tame pictures from Nanking).

On one hand I am aware that it isn't the most respectful thing to those who really suffered in those attrocities to use such a picture in a game/sci-fi context. On the other hand I used pictures before to make my post "more intense" in some way or another but I agree it would be better to do posts which are themed like that without pictures in the future. It was on the edge to crudity this time and I apologize to those who felt disturbed.

I will post a IC part soon which will clarify some things.

OOC this hasn't much to do with polishing the "bad boy" image but more with doing a raw and comprehensive narration about a war in east-asia in the 40ies.
I know myself as someone who is mostly interested in the techincal aspects of war, that this can appear trollish in a forum which is mostly interested in the technical aspects of war.
But anyway, I want to tell a more or less believable and multidimensional story about a war in asia and just posting
maps and statistics about how many planes were shot down would give a rather one dimensional picture.
I know it is an appeasing thought that war is a kind of technological sport in which two equal and chivalrous opponents meet in a fair engangement with their fancy planes or ships and the better one wins.
Unfortunately it isn't like that and therefore I wouldn't want to describe it like that.

In my last IC post I mentioned that the warcrimes were committed mostly by soldiers of the 40th Infantry Corps. This Corps suffered heavily during the fierce urban combat with the Chinese in Yuanbao. A battle which was schedueled to last for three days lasted a few weeks in the end. These circumstances can put a high strain on the individual soldier and if their limits are exceeded, atrocities are somewhat likely to happen. Especially if most soldiers are young conscripts whose moral integrity and power of judgement is not only affected by the things they had to endure recently, but by anti-chinese indoctrination.

Events like Fengcheng won't happen on a daily basis but they happen.

Glancing over the numbers posted up to this point...

Quoted

KIA: 20650
WIA: 38742
MIA: 1342
POW: 412
Tanks: 82
Light Tanks: 110
Armored Vehicles: 260
Unarmored Vehicles: 420
Artillery: 140
Fighters: 125
Bombers: 141
Recce: 33

From my analysis of this situation, Chosen's in deep stuff. They've maintained the advance so far only with bloody casualties - and what they've gained in response is not worth even a quarter of the blood they've shed for it. I can guarantee that Chosen can't make up in production the number of vehicles it's lost in combat (and foreign shipments are unlikely to arrive in the quantity and timeliness necessary to make up the difference). China's not been fighting well, but they're fighting well enough that the writing is on the wall.

Unfortunately, Chosen's best bet was a Short Victorious War, but that's not happened here. It's already too late for Chosen to achieve any sort of victory conditions. Worse, the Massacre means China won't be interested in discussing peace talks until Chosen is drowned in it's own blood.

Chosen needs a Great Power rescuer, or over the next 4-6 weeks, they're going to bleed dry. The advance will stop, China will recover their footing, and the war will be over in two months. Best bet is Russia or Japan, as nobody else has the firepower and proximity to the battlefield to stabilize the situation in time to prevent Chosen's defeat.

I know it was stated the war will still be on in 1944, but I don't see how - from these figures, this war will be over before the end of October.

I don't agree with that.
Yes, the past weeks have been bloody for both sides but the Chinese imperialists will be smashed very soon.
Losses are partially recovered by domestic production and foreign imports.

Shenyang will fall within four weeks.

Long live the Chosen Empire!

Long live the Great Leader!

Yeah... I'm not drinking the Kool-aid. Thanks for trying, though.

Me neither.

At present, the Koreans have lost 1/3 of the military dead that Canada lost during 3 years of operations on the Western Front. Granted, the Canadian forces in World War 1 are smaller than what Korea is putting forth, but Canada also was in an alliance with other Great Powers something Chosen isn't. The Canadians were also involved in these battles known as the Somme, Vimy Ridge, Passchendaele, where much of the flower of that generation fell, something Chosen hasn't really faced yet.

I estimate 4 months max and Chosen would realistically be running into real trouble. Unless the Chinese Dragon is just a paper Dragon, but even so, numbers and time are not on the Koreans side and they haven't as Brock stated made large enough gains to offset the demographic imbalance.

If given two years warning the Americans probably could supply the Koreans with enough supplies to hold the Chinese at the Yalu, and if the Koreans hadn't shot their foot by committing crimes against humanity the Americans might have been convinced of the value of an semi-independent Korea and been willing to send some aid. The Americans aren't that happy with the Chinese at present. However, the US draws the line at aiding those who shoot women and children in cold blood.

I third the comments that the only way this war stretches into 1944 is if somebody else gets involved.