WesWorld

As posted here, the Indochinese Forces de sécurité territoriaux (Territorial Security Forces) are raising a mechanized unit called the 202nd Tank Brigade. In general, this unit is intended to be particularly lightweight for an armoured force, matching one tank regiment (battalion), two bicycle-mounted light infantry companies, and an all-terrain artillery battalion with various supporting units. Some French and Indochinese have suggested substituting a mortar company for the armoured car company, but this has not yet been approved. Some emphasis has been paid towards amphibious equipment, due to the nature of Indochina's many rivers.

The order of battle of this unit, upon mobilization, shall be approximately as follows.

202nd Tank Brigade:
- 1 armoured regiment: 346 men, 15 field cars, 2 light trucks, 30 medium trucks, 2 scout cars, 2 armoured cars, 42 tanks
---- 3 tank companies: 78 men, 14 tanks, 1 field car, 2 medium trucks
---- 1 headquarters company: 48 men, 6 field cars, 2 light trucks, 6 medium trucks, 2 scout cars, two armoured cars
---- 1 regimental train: 64 men, 6 field cars, 18 trucks
- 1 armoured car company: 58 men, 14 armoured cars, 2 motorcycles
- 2 bicycle infantry battalions: 863 men, 36 machine guns, 16 HMGs, 3 60mm mortars, 2 81mm mortars, 2 81mm recoilless rifles
---- 1 command platoon: 80 men
---- 3 infantry companies: : 194 men, 12 machine guns, 16 rifle grenade launchers, 1 60mm mortar
---- 1 support company: 201 men, 16 HMGs, 2 81mm recoilless rifles, 2 81mm mortars
- 1 support battalion: 611 men, 64 motorcycles, 14 scout cars, 1 mortar carrier, 6 cars, 4 command vehicles, 48 trucks, 12 amphibious trucks, 5 heavy trucks
---- 1 scout company: 162 men, 64 motorcycles, 14 scout cars, 1 mortar carrier
---- 1 regimental staff and command company: 211 men, 4 command vehicles, 18 trucks, 6 cars
---- 1 headquarters/supply company: 174 men, 12 trucks, 5 heavy trucks
---- 1 regimental motor transport company: 64 men, 12 amphibious trucks, 18 trucks
- 1 artillery battalion: 435 men, 2 field cars, 6 scout cars, 18 motorcycles, 37 trucks, 2 trailers, 22 artillery tractors, 12 105mm guns, 4 20mm AA guns, 6 25mm AA guns
---- 1 Bataillon d'Artillerie Tractée Tous Terrain: 387 men, 16 motorcycles, 29 trucks, 6 scout cars, 12 105mm field guns, 4 20mm AA guns, 16 artillery tractors
---- 1 Batterie de 25mm Contre-Avions: 48 men, 2 field cars, 2 motorcycles, 8 trucks, 2 trailers, 6 25mm AA guns, 6 artillery tractors
- Compagnie de Sapeurs-Mineurs Mechanisee: 234 men, 26 field cars, 11 trucks, 18 amphibious trucks, 9 armoured engineering vehicles



Equipment:
- Tanks: the French Char-6D Bruyere has been selected for procurement by the FST for use in the brigade's armoured regiment. Although larger and more powerful tanks were considered, the Indochinese determined that larger tanks would be unworkable in the terrain. The Char-6D has a light combat weight and low ground pressure, making it the obvious choice. All of the tanks are equipped with floatation screens and duplex drives, similar to the Bruyeres used by the Dinassaut division.
- Armoured cars: The Panhard EBR was selected for the armoured car company.
- Infantry carriers: The TB-42 transporter is selected for use as the main infantry carrier. It was chosen over the less expensive VBCI-41 due mainly to its amphibious capability, which the Indochinese prefer.
- Trucks: The Berliet GBC-4 medium truck, and its amphibious Unic ACM-4 development, are selected for acquisition.

Is this an offensive or defensive force? It looks like the first to me, having so much amphibious capability but 42 tanks isn't a particularly powerful force if it meets, say, a Chinese armoured force and the artillery seems a bit low to support any major attack on its own (realistically this unit would be supported by other units but facing a zillion Chinese troops that might not be possible). If defensive, the lack of any AT capability other than the tanks is striking since I would assume Indochina's terrain favours defence. But overall, it looks a fairly compact unit and is certainly mobile.
If scouting is of prime concern I'd keep the AC company, at a push the EBR can be used as a substitute tank too.

In my opinion, tank units are wasted as a defensive force, since they'd cede maneuver, which is precisely what sets an armoured force apart to begin with.

So it is a defensive unit which defends by attacking.

You might perhaps think of this not as an armoured unit, but as a mobile and independent infantry brigade with artillery and tank support. The amphibious capability is designed to ease operations within the many river deltas within the Indochinese sphere. (I seriously considered adding a full company worth of bridging equipment.) At present the French and the Indochinese are reworking their AT support ideas at this level, and they will probably be revising things through 1944 and 1945 as new equipment arrives. At present, though, the French think the best anti-tank weapon is either another tank or an AT mine. Given the terrain, the Indochinese don't find it all that likely that they'd face heavy tanks.

It has the added bonus of a "Tank Brigade" title so when independence comes it looks like a grander unit and is visually pleasing on parades too. Political qualities not to be overlooked.

Mounted Combat in Vietnam offers an excellent look at the use of tanks and other armored vehicles in both Indochina Wars.

I am not certain that mixing mechanized units with bicycle-mounted infantry will work well in the tactical environment of Indochina. I would think that their rates of advance would be significantly different; on their own bicycle troops might do well - as the OTL Malayan campaign showed; on their own, tank units can operate effectively, as US experience in Vietnam showed.

The mixture might work in other environments.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
It has the added bonus of a "Tank Brigade" title so when independence comes it looks like a grander unit and is visually pleasing on parades too. Political qualities not to be overlooked.

The 1960's slang for ARVN tanks was, "Voting Machines", for their importance in the series of military coups in Saigon.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
Mounted Combat in Vietnam offers an excellent look at the use of tanks and other armored vehicles in both Indochina Wars.

I am not certain that mixing mechanized units with bicycle-mounted infantry will work well in the tactical environment of Indochina. I would think that their rates of advance would be significantly different; on their own bicycle troops might do well - as the OTL Malayan campaign showed; on their own, tank units can operate effectively, as US experience in Vietnam showed.

The mixture might work in other environments.

Hmm... maybe a bit more thought and research might be in order, then. I do have another possible idea, but I'll need a bit of time to develop it.

One may not think of Vietnam as good tank country, but the French somewhat-successfully used armored vehicles in a variety of roles, and their support of infantry in set-piece battles was invaluable - particularly the American supplied M-24. The accompanying infantry tended to be road bound though.

The arrival of the lightweight M-113 made a world of difference, and it became the workhorse of operations. If you haven read 'Mounted Combat', you will find it well worth the read.

As ever though hindsight can be a powerful thing. In WW we haven't seen any real SE Asian fighting at all to indicate anything beyond what exercises and common sense provides. Small and lean is probably best.

The current OOB is certainly a mobile unit. The bicycle troops sound like something from Dad's Army but they aren't tied to bigger tracks and roads and most importantly they don't use fuel either. What fuel the unit needs is devoted to its tanks and its supply vehicles. That could be useful in a major war situation if fuel supplies become uncertain. It reduces expenditure on procurement and saves on field maintenance, spares holdings, workload on the mechanics and generally a bicycle is going to be more reliable. While the two different speeds might become an issue, I don't see setpeice attacks being that rapid given the terrain, although the tanks will loose an element of manoeuvre. If more speed is needed in pursuit or surprise attack simply jump onto the tanks like the Soviets did.

Let's take another stab at this rat.

Quoted

202nd Tank Brigade:
- 2 regiment inter-armes: 1,003 men, 4 60mm mortars, 9 120mm mortars, 63 field cars, 21 motorcycles, 20 motorcycles with sidecars, 4 light trucks, 41 medium trucks, 10 scout cars, 2 armoured cars, 28 tanks, 42 infantry carriers
---- 1 headquarters squadron: 48 men, 2 medium MGs, 6 field cars, 2 light trucks, 6 medium trucks, 2 scout cars, 2 armoured cars
---- 2 tank squadrons: 78 men, 1 field car, 2 medium trucks, 14 tanks
---- 2 chasseurs portes squadrons: 222 men, 2 60mm mortars, 16 field cars, 3 motorcycles, 2 medium trucks, 14 infantry carriers
---- 1 heavy mortar battery: 143 men, 9 120mm mortars, 14 field cars, 3 motorcycles, 5 medium trucks, 10 infantry carriers
---- 1 reconnaissance squadron: 148 men, 3 field cars, 12 motorcycles, 20 motorcycles with sidecars, 2 light trucks, 4 medium trucks, 8 scout cars, 4 infantry carriers
---- 1 regimental train: 64 men, 6 field cars, 18 medium trucks
- 1 to 2 chasseurs portes battalions: 868 men, 36 machine guns, 16 HMGs, 3 60mm mortars, 2 81mm mortars, 2 25mm AT guns, 47 armoured carriers, 34 trucks, 2 wrecker trucks, 13 cars, 2 field ambulances
---- 1 battalion staff: 1 battalion commander, 3 officers, 2 staff cars
---- 1 command platoon: 1 signals squad (3 NCOs, 35 men, 8 light trucks, 2 cars), 1 supply squad (2 NCOs, 12 men, 2 trucks), 1 medical squad (1 NCO, 23 men including 16 stretcher-bearers, 2 field ambulances)
---- 3 chasseurs companies: 218 men, 12 machine guns, 16 rifle grenade launchers, 1 60mm mortar, 13 infantry carriers, 3 trucks, 14 cars, 4 motorcycles
---- 1 support company: 99 men, 16 HMGs, 2 25mm AT guns, 2 81mm mortars, 8 armoured carriers, 10 trucks
---- 1 vehicle maintenance platoon: 34 men, 5 trucks, 2 wrecker/crane trucks
- 1 armoured car company: 58 men, 14 armoured cars, 2 motorcycles
- 1 support battalion: 611 men, 64 motorcycles, 14 scout cars, 1 mortar carrier, 6 cars, 4 command vehicles, 48 trucks, 12 amphibious trucks, 5 heavy trucks
---- 1 scout company: 162 men, 64 motorcycles, 14 scout cars, 1 mortar carrier
---- 1 regimental staff and command company: 211 men, 4 command vehicles, 18 trucks, 6 cars
---- 1 headquarters/supply company: 174 men, 12 trucks, 5 heavy trucks
---- 1 regimental motor transport company: 64 men, 12 amphibious trucks, 18 trucks
- 1 artillery battalion: 435 men, 2 field cars, 6 scout cars, 18 motorcycles, 37 trucks, 2 trailers, 22 artillery tractors, 12 105mm guns, 4 20mm AA guns, 6 25mm AA guns
---- 1 Bataillon d'Artillerie Tractée Tous Terrain: 387 men, 16 motorcycles, 29 trucks, 6 scout cars, 12 105mm field guns, 4 20mm AA guns, 16 artillery tractors
---- 1 Batterie de 25mm Contre-Avions: 48 men, 2 field cars, 2 motorcycles, 8 trucks, 2 trailers, 6 25mm AA guns, 6 artillery tractors
- Compagnie de Sapeurs-Mineurs Mechanisee: 234 men, 26 field cars, 11 trucks, 18 amphibious trucks, 9 armoured engineering vehicles

Structure wise, I think this makes for better balance. Particularly in open country like the Plain of Jars in Laos or certain parts of Vietnam it would be fast and lethal. In wet country like the Red River Delta in the North, or the Mekong Delta in the South, much less so.

Proper deployment of such a force would tax the technical personnel resources of the Indochinese defense forces, so there might be the need for considerable French cadre for a few years. But given the ability of the French to train the local forces, this is not a barrier as much as a long stretch that must be slogged through.

Looks better overall. Still feels a bit modern and very European (let's face it OTL Japan conquered SE Asia with no armoured infantry and beat the pants off all the well-equipped European armies). As Bruce says there is some technical resource issues with this unit, but they can be overcome.

The Dutch KNIL really wasn't well equipped. Real hodgepodge of equipment, low numbers of troops, and they couldn't get more gear delivered. Very limited armor amounts. The Japanese assessment of the guns captured at various spots in Java didn't think much of most of them, though they sent a couple to Japan and rebuilt some.

Elsewhere I haven't read down to the TO&E level, but my impression is the Europeans weren't very well organized or very mobile, and very road bound, the IJA went around the flank alot. Now, that caught up with them- the IJA attrition rate to non-combat causes climbed substantially as campaigns dragged on and their lack of QM assets told.

As for the Tank Brigade, Seems more like Regimental size, the Napoleanic OOBs had Demi-Brigades

My observation is that the lmix of 2 close (20&25) AA size is problematic, plus 3 different mortar sizes - it's a supply complication. Further, given that there seems to be motorized transport, I don't see why the 25mm guns are chosen. The 47mm is still fairly man-workable in a pinch, and has a shot <300m against most tanks.

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
Further, given that there seems to be motorized transport, I don't see why the 25mm guns are chosen. The 47mm is still fairly man-workable in a pinch, and has a shot <300m against most tanks.

The 25mm AT guns are a relic of the original French OOB I acquired for use - it's the historical equipment of a regular chasseurs portes battalion. At this point, the 25mm and 47mm guns are both fading in favor of heavier or more portable AT weapons.

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
As for the Tank Brigade, Seems more like Regimental size, the Napoleanic OOBs had Demi-Brigades

In French terminology, a Regiment applies to either battalions with cavalry lineage (for instance, a tank battalion is called a regiment), or a triangular grouping of infantry. This unit cannot be a regiment because it consists of two regiments inter-armes (a heavy battalion with cavalry lineage). Even if I called the RIAs battalions instead, then because it's not a triangular infantry formation and is intended for independent operations, it would thus require the Brigade moniker.

The term 'demi-brigade' was instituted by the French Revolutionary Army because they thought that 'Regiment' smacked of Royalist influence. The French Army continues to use the term as a synonym for 'regiment', but it is applied solely to the Chasseurs Alpins or Chasseurs Pyrenees. For example, although the Chasseurs Alpins divisions are constituted almost identically to the regular Division d'Infanterie (they have different equipment in their TO&E and supply units organized for mountains), the DCAs are composed of three DBCAs (Demi-Brigades de Chasseurs Alpins) rather than of three RIs (Regiments de Infanterie).

As this is a new formation, why the relic AT then ?

Interesting on the French terminology. Curious why a new hybrid specialist unit, between Regimental and Brigade in size, use the same term as the CA or CP ?