WesWorld

Indochina wishes to seek membership in the League of Nations as an autonomous self-governing territory. Any objections?

The permanent representative of the German Reich, Joseph Wirth, announces support for the petition in question.

"The Indochinese people have demonstrated their willingness to work together in harmony with France, and strive toward nationhood. It is the duty of this body to recognize such progress and support it by welcoming Indochina into its membership as an autonomous self-governing territory."

Persia would seek some clarificaton on the status of Indochina, having thought it was a French colony.

Count Muata Ansika, the elderly delegate for the Kingdom of the Kongo rises and claims the floor. His shock of white hair forms crown to his ebony face with it's incongruous monocle :

"My Dear Sir, I laud the desire of the Indochinese government to join the League of Nations. I have looked with interest on the wording of the Tourane Convention, and the preparations for the 1945 plebiscite, in adherence with the Indochina Protocol.
In the event that the status as a, um Special, oh dear, um, Special Overseas Collectivity, is chosen the Indochinese government will have right to confirm treaties of import to Indochina, the other option being complete independence.

However, unless I am mistaken, at the current time the French National Assembly is the recognized authority exercises complete control of Indochinese foreign policy. This is much the way between my Kingdom and the Grand Duchy of Ubangi-Shari. I wish to welcome the Indochinese to this assemblage, but if my understanding is correct, perhaps some sort of associate membership until 1945 is in order. At that point, regardless of the results of the vote, the status of Indochina should indeed be that of member. "

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Persia would seek some clarificaton on the status of Indochina, having thought it was a French colony.

Indochina is currently an autonomous member of the French Union, so their status is largely equivalent to Canada's. They have some control over foreign policy, but French parliament can veto their decisions.

The SAE delegation likes to hear the French on that matter....

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Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Persia would seek some clarificaton on the status of Indochina, having thought it was a French colony.

Indochina is currently an autonomous member of the French Union, so their status is largely equivalent to Canada's. They have some control over foreign policy, but French parliament can veto their decisions.

Persia did not realize Canadian foreign policy could be over-riden by the British parliament.

Are there other precedents in which non-sovereign members have joined the League?

express Russian Federation's view in favor of Indochina joining League of Nations.

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Originally posted by HoOmAn
The SAE delegation likes to hear the French on that matter....

In one of the parts of the Tourane Convention, the Republic of France agreed to permit the Indochinese to apply for membership in the League. To put it in colloquial terms, "It wasn't our idea, but we're fine with it."

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Persia did not realize Canadian foreign policy could be over-riden by the British parliament.

Largely equivalent =/= exactly the same. The tie between Britain and the Dominions is looser than the tie between the member states of the French Union, with ties being somewhat more centralized in the French Union. The details differ, but I believe the situation is still equivalent.

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Are there other precedents in which non-sovereign members have joined the League?

Approximately. When the Irish Free State joined in 1923, the status of its sovereignty was... can we charitably call it 'transitional' prior to the 1926 Balfour Declaration and the Statute of Westminster. Canada historically joined in 1919 despite being in approximately the same autonomous-but-not-independent place, as did Australia, New Zealand, etc.

The French delegates would also point out in a quiet mutter that within Persia's own quite recent history they were a member of the League of Nations, even though they were forced to act as an autonomous territory of Bharat - at least from a certain point of view.

Muttered cheapshots from the French delegation will not be helpful in swaying Persia to the Indochinese cause.

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Muttered cheapshots from the French delegation will not be helpful in swaying Persia to the Indochinese cause.

Hey, it's not your fault India treated Persia like their harem slave... you fixed the problem, as I see it.

In any case, that's why it was quietly muttered as opposed to spoken out loud where someone might hear it.

Trolling me in-character is a great way to express your out-of-character appreciation.

IC:

Persia has no further comment on the matter.

Peru and Hedjaz have no objection to the petition.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Muttered cheapshots from the French delegation will not be helpful in swaying Persia to the Indochinese cause.

Hey, it's not your fault India treated Persia like their harem slave... you fixed the problem, as I see it.

In any case, that's why it was quietly muttered as opposed to spoken out loud where someone might hear it.

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Trolling me in-character is a great way to express your out-of-character appreciation.

OOC, Mod Hat:



______________________

IC:

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Persia would seek some clarificaton on the status of Indochina, having thought it was a French colony.

Indochina is currently an autonomous member of the French Union, so their status is largely equivalent to Canada's. They have some control over foreign policy, but French parliament can veto their decisions.

Persia did not realize Canadian foreign policy could be over-riden by the British parliament.

Leave my beloved Canada out of this.

The United States Ambassador to the League of Nations Mr. Edward Stettinius:

Friends, while the United States applauds the movements made by the French Republic to move many of its colonial possessions towards self-government and eventually sovereignty, it does have some concerns over the inclusion of Indochina as a full member. The primary concern of the United States is the fact that Indochina is not yet a fully sovereign nation, primarily because so far as the United States is aware it does not have control over its foreign policy, which is one of the prerequisites in the view of the United States of nationhood.

However, the United States would consent to some form of observer status whereby the Indochinese delegation would be allowed all the powers of a full member, but would not be allowed to vote on resolutions in the General Assembly.

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Originally posted by TheCanadian
The United States Ambassador to the League of Nations Mr. Edward Stettinius:

Friends, while the United States applauds the movements made by the French Republic to move many of its colonial possessions towards self-government and eventually sovereignty, it does have some concerns over the inclusion of Indochina as a full member. The primary concern of the United States is the fact that Indochina is not yet a fully sovereign nation, primarily because so far as the United States is aware it does not have control over its foreign policy, which is one of the prerequisites in the view of the United States of nationhood.

However, the United States would consent to some form of observer status whereby the Indochinese delegation would be allowed all the powers of a full member, but would not be allowed to vote on resolutions in the General Assembly.

I went back in and looked more carefully at how I've got the Indochinese government set up at present; I thought I'd stated in an earlier post that Indochina has control of their foreign policy, but it seems to have been confusingly stated and missed. Indochina presently has the authority to conduct their own foreign policy within the scope of the French Union (meaning they can negotiate treaties that don't conflict with the French Union's policy), but they have not made a cabinet-level position for it and haven't extended any embassies. When I said the French Parliament can veto their decisions, I was incorrect: under the present system, if the French dislike the way the Indochinese conduct their foreign policy, then the French president would instruct the High Commissioner to advise the Indochinese Parliament and Governor General of their unhappiness; if the situation got extreme, then the High Commissioner could order another party leader to form a new government. Like I said, I set up Indochina's status to resemble the relationship between the UK and the Commonwealth Dominions.

The British delegate favourable accepts the proposal to give Indochina membership of the League.
"It is only fitting that all self-governing territories capable of representing their populations interests responsibly do so at the highest level of international co-operation."

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

I went back in and looked more carefully at how I've got the Indochinese government set up at present; I thought I'd stated in an earlier post that Indochina has control of their foreign policy, but it seems to have been confusingly stated and missed. Indochina presently has the authority to conduct their own foreign policy within the scope of the French Union (meaning they can negotiate treaties that don't conflict with the French Union's policy), but they have not made a cabinet-level position for it and haven't extended any embassies. When I said the French Parliament can veto their decisions, I was incorrect: under the present system, if the French dislike the way the Indochinese conduct their foreign policy, then the French president would instruct the High Commissioner to advise the Indochinese Parliament and Governor General of their unhappiness; if the situation got extreme, then the High Commissioner could order another party leader to form a new government. Like I said, I set up Indochina's status to resemble the relationship between the UK and the Commonwealth Dominions.

OOC : I had gone back and looked briefly, and without those missing/confusing elements, Indochina did not look sovereign yet, but would be in 1945, hence the Kongo delegate's question.

IC: Count Muata Ansika rises again "With the legal parameters of the Indochinese state clarified, the Kingdom of the Kongo will support the Indochinese petition.


OOC : Not sure how many have to support it before the vote, but..in the end the various nations I squire will vote the following.
Kongo : Yes
Belgium : Yes
Luxembourg : Yes
Netherlands : Yes
Saud : No*
Yemen : Yes

*because somebody has to be a pain, and I don't think a 100% vote is needed. I don't think Yemen joined, or Brunei so we'll leave those off.

Edit : Added Yemen

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
I don't think Yemen joined, or Brunei so we'll leave those off.

I had Yemen on the list of members, but not Brunei, since that appears to be a British colony.

If Syria, Persia and the Hedjaz all have league representation then why not Indovhina?

Atlantis: Yes
Colombia: Yes
Turkey: Yes
Byzantium quietly considers petitioning for the same level of membership, there are afterall two vacant spots now....

Don Luis Varela, delegate of the Republic of the Philippines, addresses himself to the President of the Assembly thus:

“Mister President, it is the view of the Republic of the Philippines that the petition submitted by Indochina that it be recognized as an autonomous self-governing territory has merit. My esteemed colleague from the Kingdom of the Kongo was quite correct to seek clarification from the representative of the Republic of France on the intent and scope the sovereignty currently held by Indochina under the both the Indochina Protocol and the recently-concluded Tourane Convention. That clarification has been provided, to the satisfaction of many of the delegates here assembled. Therefore, it is the position of the Philippine Government that the aforesaid petition be approved, and it is our earnest hope that representatives of Indochina will soon be a part of this august assembly.”


(For what it's worth, Yugoslavia also supports the move, and leaves sales catalogs with the Indochinese representatives present in Geneva)