WesWorld

OK, although you need to fix this...

Quoted from "Hood"

Armament:
8 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 996.49lbs / 452.00kg shells, 1928 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring

DOH!!! Thanks eltf177.
That error was why the armour weight was so far off. Having reset all the baseline guns to the positions where RA simmed them (for some reason all the 152mm and the 100mm are side - forward rather than dispersed along the hull. The armour weight still doesn't match but its closer and is now 1.00 hull strength without altering the draught. So no new original sim will be needed.

This is the corrected modernised Patagonia.

Patagonia, Argentina/ Italy Battlecruiser laid down 1928

Displacement:
24,886 t light; 26,088 t standard; 27,586 t normal; 28,785 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
737.60 ft / 721.78 ft x 87.60 ft x 28.54 ft (normal load)
224.82 m / 220.00 m x 26.70 m x 8.70 m

Armament:
8 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 996.49lbs / 452.00kg shells, 1928 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
18 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (6x3 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1928 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.42lbs / 13.80kg shells, 1928 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 10,227 lbs / 4,639 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.6" / 270 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.18" / 30 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 22.97 ft / 7.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.6" / 270 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.66" / 93 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 116,000 shp / 86,536 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,696 tons

Complement:
1,069 - 1,391

Cost:
£8.915 million / $35.660 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,141 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 8,436 tons, 30.6 %
- Belts: 2,431 tons, 8.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 471 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 2,416 tons, 8.8 %
- Armour Deck: 3,063 tons, 11.1 %
- Conning Tower: 54 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 3,611 tons, 13.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,639 tons, 42.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,700 tons, 9.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 0.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
41,399 lbs / 18,778 Kg = 47.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 5.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.91
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.535
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.24 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Mid (70 %): 27.89 ft / 8.50 m (18.04 ft / 5.50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Stern: 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Average freeboard: 25.46 ft / 7.76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 206.7 %
Waterplane Area: 45,283 Square feet or 4,207 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 844 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Note: Deck armour weight simulates the following; 25mm forwards, 90mm over machinery, 120mm over magazines, 90mm over steering gear

Refit Changes
New shields to 100mm gun mounts
New twin 37mm replacing singles on forward superstructure, quarterdeck and upper deck
Twin 20mm mounts added (2x2 on bridge structure, 2x2 near mainmast and 1x2 each on B and X turret)
One Surface Search and one Gunnery Radio-Location set added
Four new model secondary directors fitted
New catapult fitted (one catapult removed to save weight)

Quoted

for some reason all the 152mm and the 100mm are side - forward rather than dispersed along the hull.

The mid break is at 70%. When you look at the picture of the ship, you will see that all those guns are forward of the break and that is the reason why you sim those guns as being forward.

I see. Well I've never simmed ships that way but it makes sense I guess.

I may not have solved my capital ship quandaries yet, but I have sorted out the need for fleet ASW protection.
I've always admired the Italian Soldati class and now Argentina will be receiving some of these vessels next year. They will form an additional anti-submarine unit which will screen the battlecruisers and carriers. Operating within RSAF air power zones they will certainly need their heavy LAA batteries.

Here is a sim of a very modest refit, adding nothing but two single 20mm (and replacing the two current 25mm) and radar of some form. I've simmed this from RA's sim but please not I have tinkered with the misc weight allocations as some of RA's allowances for sonar and DCs seemed very low to me. I was going to modernise the Sonar too, but RA's description of the D2bis system sounds fairly good, I might do a 25% refit but that would need to wait until 1946.


Soldati Class, Italy Destroyer laid down 1931

Displacement:
1,560 t light; 1,650 t standard; 1,953 t normal; 2,196 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
379.14 ft / 360.89 ft x 36.09 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)
115.56 m / 110.00 m x 11.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 296 lbs / 134 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 32,000 shp / 23,872 Kw = 32.37 kts
Range 3,400nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 546 tons

Complement:
146 - 190

Cost:
£0.898 million / $3.590 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 35 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 15 tons, 0.8 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 15 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 868 tons, 44.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 561 tons, 28.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 393 tons, 20.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 81 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
611 lbs / 277 Kg = 9.1 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.92 ft / 7.90 m
- Forecastle (10 %): 19.36 ft / 5.90 m
- Mid (40 %): 19.36 ft / 5.90 m (11.15 ft / 3.40 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Stern: 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Average freeboard: 14.70 ft / 4.48 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 163.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71.7 %
Waterplane Area: 8,320 Square feet or 773 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 85 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 177 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.68
- Overall: 0.56
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc Weight:
20 tons = 2x quadruple 37mm mounts
24 tons = 8x 600mm TT
1 ton = towed torpedo
20 tons = 50x DC on racks
10 tons = Sonar
10 tons = Radar
= 81 tons

1945 will see some major changes to the structure of the fleet.

The heavy cruiser ARA Almirante Brown will decommission and when she completes refit, ARA La Argentina will join the 4th Cruiser Squadron (alongside the four Belgranos). The 1st Squadron will disband and the 4th will become the 1st, to give three squadrons of cruisers (five ships each = 15, plus the cruiser/minelayer).

The Battleship Squadron and the Battlecruiser Squadron are renamed the 1st and 2nd Battle Squadron respectively and the ARA Puyerredon will be reassigned from the 2nd Battleship Squadron to the 1st Battle Squadron, but still based at Comodoro Rivadavia, the 2nd Battleship Squadron being disbanded. I'm toying with having Puyerredon undertake a gunnery training ship role, but that might be expensive. The old 1910 Class cruiser currently used for gunnery training will be scrapped in 1945.

The destroyer and escorts fleets will be altered. New eight ship organisations will be applied, thus reducing formation numbers.

The 4th Patrol Squadron will be disbanded and its six Project 611 AA Escort Class boats distributed two each to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Patrol Squadrons (bringing them to 8 boats each). The older 611 boats will probably need replacing soon, so its possible by the end of 1945 another squadron might go.

The 1st Escort Squadron at Puerto Deseado will be reorganised with eight Chaco Class escorts and the patrol icebreaker Piedra Buena. In effect a light escort force for convoy duties and coastal patrol.
The 2nd Escort Squadron at Rawson will receive the four Project 406/406A Class escort destroyers and the three Indomita Class torpedo boats and the sole Project 451 torpedo boat (a modernised Indomita design). This will in effect be a heavy escort force suitable for coastal operations within RSAA air coverage. The torpedo-boat concept is now officially dead in Argentine tactical practices and these ships might be refitted for more DCs and sonar etc.
The 3rd Escort Squadron at Puerto Santa Cruz will be disbanded when the old Yucuman DD escorts are retired in Q1/45.

The current destroyer formations will be re-numbered and assigned ships as follows:
At Bahia Blanca:
3rd Destroyer Squadron, eight Project 452 Class (ex-Margay)
4th Destroyer Squadron, eight ex-Italian Soldati Class
At Viedma:
1st Destroyer Squadron, five Mendoza Class and two 1939 Class and one 1940 Class destroyer
At Comodoro Rivadavia:
2nd Destroyer Squadron, five 1933 and 1936 Class and three 1939 Class destroyers
At Rawson:
5th Destroyer Squadron, five Project 414 Class torpedo destroyers and two Project 454 Class torpedo boat/ light destroyers)

The Italian destroyer leader ARA Sarandi will be reassigned to the Carrier Squadron as its integral protection and plane-guard vessel. In peacetime she'll probably act as target for the aircraft, safety ship and probably other detached duties within the fleet and some training roles.