WesWorld

This year, the Royal Navy will lay down two or three (probably the latter) new classes of ship. These will be of the following types:

1. A new heavy cruiser, developed from the earlier Howe class.
2. A new destroyer, using the twin 4.7" gun mounting trialled on the Yeoman class of 1928.
3. An oceanic escort, capable of general escort duties. There's 10 points up for grabs for whoever figures out where the name came from.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

HMS Anson, Royal Navy Heavy Cruiser laid down 1930

Displacement:
9,752 t light; 10,216 t standard; 11,865 t normal; 13,185 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
615.64 ft / 610.00 ft x 68.25 ft x 19.00 ft (normal load)
187.65 m / 185.93 m x 20.80 m x 5.79 m

Armament:
8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 290.00lbs / 131.54kg shells, 1930 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.00lbs / 15.88kg shells, 1930 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns (4x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,632 lbs / 1,194 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.50" / 89 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 88,002 shp / 65,649 Kw = 31.35 kts
Range 10,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,968 tons

Complement:
567 - 738

Cost:
£4.014 million / $16.058 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 292 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 1,392 tons, 11.7 %
- Belts: 706 tons, 6.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 149 tons, 1.3 %
- Armour Deck: 525 tons, 4.4 %
- Conning Tower: 11 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 2,667 tons, 22.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,312 tons, 44.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,113 tons, 17.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
18,759 lbs / 8,509 Kg = 73.3 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.47

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.525
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.94 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Stern: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Average freeboard: 25.18 ft / 7.67 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 210.1 %
Waterplane Area: 28,384 Square feet or 2,637 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 130 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 559 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.06
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weight includes:

3 aircraft and support fittings (only 2 normally carried)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A Class, Royal Navy Destroyer laid down 1930

Displacement:
1,524 t light; 1,596 t standard; 1,759 t normal; 1,889 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
382.64 ft / 375.00 ft x 33.00 ft x 12.50 ft (normal load)
116.63 m / 114.30 m x 10.06 m x 3.81 m

Armament:
6 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns (3x2 guns), 62.00lbs / 28.12kg shells, 1930 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 377 lbs / 171 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 175
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 35,791 shp / 26,700 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 293 tons

Complement:
135 - 176

Cost:
£0.862 million / $3.448 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 40 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 7 tons, 0.4 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 7 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 854 tons, 48.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 573 tons, 32.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 235 tons, 13.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 2.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
478 lbs / 217 Kg = 9.2 x 4.7 " / 119 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.398
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.36 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (34 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (11.00 ft / 3.35 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Stern: 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Average freeboard: 14.14 ft / 4.31 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 79.9 %
Waterplane Area: 7,896 Square feet or 734 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 69 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 182 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.52
- Longitudinal: 1.67
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

HMS Ben Alder, Royal Navy Oceanic Escort laid down 1930

Displacement:
1,347 t light; 1,404 t standard; 1,593 t normal; 1,744 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
312.45 ft / 306.50 ft x 37.00 ft x 8.25 ft (normal load)
95.24 m / 93.42 m x 11.28 m x 2.51 m

Armament:
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (2x2 guns), 35.00lbs / 15.88kg shells, 1930 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns (2x2 guns), 2.03lbs / 0.92kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 0.55" / 14.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1930 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 149 lbs / 67 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 9,999 shp / 7,459 Kw = 22.85 kts
Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 340 tons

Complement:
125 - 163

Cost:
£0.435 million / $1.738 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 17 tons, 1.1 %
Armour: 7 tons, 0.5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 7 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 303 tons, 19.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 944 tons, 59.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 246 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 4.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,385 lbs / 1,989 Kg = 137.0 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.04
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.596
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.28 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Mid (65 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 21.37 ft / 6.51 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 267.3 %
Waterplane Area: 8,263 Square feet or 768 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 193 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 50 lbs/sq ft or 246 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.77
- Longitudinal: 10.74
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Anson's deck armor is very light, though I realize she's a 10,000 ton cruiser so can't afford the weight of armor of Hipper.

The A class is fine, you could even raise the freeboard a bit to get some of the water off the decks.

Quoted

Originally posted by RLBH

3. An oceanic escort, capable of general escort duties. There's 10 points up for grabs for whoever figures out where the name came from.

It's a mountain in Scotland

Quoted

4 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns (2x2 guns), 2.03lbs / 0.92kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring

Something about that doesn't read right: probably the one raised mount part. I can see two mounts aft on the sides, but why would one be raised and one not?

Quoted

8 - 0.55" / 14.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells,

Is this a new caliber? I don't remember seeing it before.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc

Quoted

Originally posted by RLBH

3. An oceanic escort, capable of general escort duties. There's 10 points up for grabs for whoever figures out where the name came from.

It's a mountain in Scotland

Curse you, I was hoping to drag that one out with "Ben Alder? Who's he?"

Oh well, take the 10 points. Not that they mean anything

RLBH

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson

Quoted

4 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns (2x2 guns), 2.03lbs / 0.92kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring

Something about that doesn't read right: probably the one raised mount part. I can see two mounts aft on the sides, but why would one be raised and one not?

I know, I've got a very strange AA arrangement, a relic of the fact that I modified the design from an earlier one. A slightly modified version is in the works.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson

Quoted

8 - 0.55" / 14.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells,

Is this a new caliber? I don't remember seeing it before.

Yep. Promises to be an improvement over the Vickers 0.5" machine gun, but there'll be more in the news later on.

RLBH

Quoted

Yep. Promises to be an improvement over the Vickers 0.5" machine gun, but there'll be more in the news later on.

What, are you using the cartridge from the Boys anti-tank rifle in a machinegun?

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson

Quoted

Yep. Promises to be an improvement over the Vickers 0.5" machine gun, but there'll be more in the news later on.

What, are you using the cartridge from the Boys anti-tank rifle in a machinegun?

Essentially, but a few years before the Boys exists. This was considered in WW2 when there was a shortage of Browning 0.50" MGs to arm bombers with.

RLBH

Makes sense, it's certainly ballisticly a better round than the .50 Vickers.

Unless there's a real need for the high freeboard and excellent sea-keeping on the CA, I think you'd be better off chopping it down a metre or more and investing in a larger powerplant or heavier armor.

Destroyer and escort look good, however.

The high freeboard and excellent sea-keeping are pretty much standards of historical British cruiser architecture at this time, and the other vessels RLBH has done fit this model. They are excellent patrol vessels, and solid convoy guards against converted merchantmen. What they are not is great war-time cruisers for fighting other cruisers of the same treaty classification, because they tend to be lighter than the other cruisers AND they give up tonnage that could be used for protection or armament for seakeeping.

If it's a consistent feature of British CA design here, then I shall cease to object...

It seems consistent so far.

I'm not so sure it's a good idea in WW to follow historical patterns this closely, mind, there are a lot more warships out there that are hostile or potentially hostile to British interests than there were in the 1920s or 1930s. This makes it unclear to me that the major threat to British supply lines that would be fought by cruisers is armed merchant raiders, which these ships would be good at fighting, as opposed to actual warships, which they would be rather less good at fighting. Certainly I would not give Anson good odds in a fight with an Atlantean Hector or Menelaus class CA, an Indian Vadorada, or a Nordish Gjøvik, just to pick some possible foes.

Ben Alder >> Ben Nevis >> Ben Elton

The freeboard on the historical County class was 30.5ft at the stem, dropping to 24ft amidships. For the vessels with a cut down quarterdeck the freeboard was 17ft at that point.

Quoted

I'm not so sure it's a good idea in WW to follow historical patterns this closely

That is especially true. Historical designs aren't as competitive.

Using RLBH's judging spreadsheet, I tried to do WW heavy cruisers. Benchmark is USS Baltimore, for a similar size, but this skews things a bit. First number is absolute, second is compensated for size.

So...Hipper is about the best out there?

(Wonder how Basilan II would rank?)

Ton for ton, yes.

Tylor is the best in absolute terms, though, according to Red Admiral's analysis.

RLBH

Given that Tylor's about 33% bigger than any other CA out there, she should be the best in absolute terms.

Be curious to see the math behind these rankings.

Done anything similar for capital ships?

Incorporating some of the comments, but trying to keep broadly the same hull arrangement, I've come up with the following.

The four hulls laid down will be completed as reported, given that their light displacements are a little down from the original design.

I'd tried to get 5 turrets on, but I can't get that, together with decent speed and protection, on a 10,000 ton hull.

HMS Anson, Royal Navy Heavy Cruiser laid down 1930

Displacement:
9,642 t light; 10,106 t standard; 11,724 t normal; 13,019 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
624.94 ft / 620.00 ft x 66.00 ft x 23.00 ft (normal load)
190.48 m / 188.98 m x 20.12 m x 7.01 m

Armament:
8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 290.00lbs / 131.54kg shells, 1930 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.00lbs / 15.88kg shells, 1930 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns (1x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
16 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns (2x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 2,648 lbs / 1,201 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 24.5" / 622.3 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 3.00" / 76 mm

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 90,004 shp / 67,143 Kw = 32.06 kts
Range 10,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,913 tons

Complement:
563 - 732

Cost:
£4.041 million / $16.164 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 294 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 1,630 tons, 13.9 %
- Belts: 801 tons, 6.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 351 tons, 3.0 %
- Armour Deck: 478 tons, 4.1 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,727 tons, 23.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,901 tons, 41.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,082 tons, 17.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,617 lbs / 6,630 Kg = 57.1 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.436
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.39 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.90 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 20.68 ft / 6.30 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.4 %
Waterplane Area: 25,813 Square feet or 2,398 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 573 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weight includes:

3 aircraft and support fittings (only 2 normally carried)

Canada may be interested in aquiring some vessels of the Anson design (with possible modifications), preferably built domestically. I'll have to see how the Cleito talks go, and where my Industry ends up at the end of the year.

Remember you can go up to 13,000 tons for a heavy cruiser.

Tylor is an oddity as she's more like an overgrown modern armored cruiser rather than a heavy cruiser.