WesWorld

17inc
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 41
(5/5/03 7:34:22 am)
Reply Hear are two firgates i have been working on
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Take a look? tell what do think



loch, UK Aust frigate laid down 1934

Displacement:
1,425 t light; 1,465 t standard; 1,629 t normal; 1,754 t full load
Loading submergence 183 tons/feet

Dimensions:
307.00 ft x 38.50 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
93.57 m x 11.73 m x 3.66 m

Armament:
1 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns (1 Main turrets x 1 guns)
15 - 1.56" / 40 mm AA guns
20 - 0.80" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 86 lbs / 39 kg

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 7,357 shp / 5,488 Kw = 21.67 kts
Range 9,900nm at 10.00 kts

Complement:
128 - 166

Cost:
£0.434 million / $1.738 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 11 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 212 tons, 13.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,104 tons, 67.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 204 tons, 12.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 99 tons, 6.1 %

Metacentric height 1.2

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.00
Shellfire needed to sink: 3,359 lbs / 1,524 Kg = 64.7 x 4.7 " / 119 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.5
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 94 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.13
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.402
Sharpness coefficient: 0.32
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.97
'Natural speed' for length: 17.52 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim: 72
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 55.0 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 107.2 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 268 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.83
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs / square foot or 496 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 3.27
(for 11.22 ft / 3.42 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 0.69 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.94



River class, Uk Aust frigate laid down 1937

Displacement:
1,776 t light; 1,825 t standard; 2,030 t normal; 2,186 t full load
Loading submergence 208 tons/feet

Dimensions:
301.20 ft x 36.60 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
91.81 m x 11.16 m x 3.66 m

Armament:
2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns
15 - 1.56" / 40 mm AA guns
20 - 0.80" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 98 lbs / 44 kg

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 7,855 shp / 5,860 Kw = 20.94 kts
Range 11,200nm at 10.00 kts

Complement:
151 - 196

Cost:
£0.561 million / $2.245 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 12 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 218 tons, 10.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,456 tons, 71.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 254 tons, 12.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 4.4 %

Metacentric height 1.1

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.00
Shellfire needed to sink: 4,716 lbs / 2,139 Kg = 147.4 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 3.5
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 75 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.07
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.537
Sharpness coefficient: 0.37
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.27
'Natural speed' for length: 17.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim: 70
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 45.6 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 101.4 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 326 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 2.38
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 125 lbs / square foot or 613 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 3.55
(for 11.06 ft / 3.37 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 0.05 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 2.48





TheCSANavy
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 22
(5/7/03 3:18:17 am)
Reply Re: Hear are two firgates i have been working on
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Andla, Chile Sloop laid down 1920

Displacement:
372 t light; 385 t standard; 435 t normal; 473 t full load
Loading submergence 55 tons/feet

Dimensions:
230.00 ft x 16.94 ft x 11.10 ft (normal load)
70.10 m x 5.16 m x 3.38 m

Armament:
1 - 4.10" / 104 mm guns
Main turrets are grouped together
7 - 1.57" / 40 mm AA guns
5 - 0.79" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 49 lbs / 22 kg
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Main gun shields 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 1 shaft, 4,483 shp / 3,344 Kw = 23.10 kts
Range 3,500nm at 12.00 kts

Complement:
47 - 61

Cost:
£0.095 million / $0.380 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 6 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 2 tons, 0.5 %
Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Armament: 2 tons, 0.5 %, Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 157 tons, 36.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 187 tons, 43.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 63 tons, 14.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 4.6 %

Metacentric height 0.4

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is extremely poor
Excellent seaboat, comfortable and able to fight her guns in the heaviest weather

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.03
Shellfire needed to sink: 255 lbs / 116 Kg = 7.4 x 4.1 " / 104 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.2
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 50 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.34
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.68

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.352
Sharpness coefficient: 0.25
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 9.27
'Natural speed' for length: 15.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim: 30
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 132.7 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 18.7 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 113 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.00
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs / square foot or 180 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.46
(for 8.14 ft / 2.48 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 0.05 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.09


( Heres my idea of a Escort....anyways just thougth I would post it and get your thoughts on it and others.)

LordArpad
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 34
(5/8/03 8:08:39 am)
Reply Re: Hear are two firgates i have been working on
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my feeling is that the springstyle algorithm falls down on small ships - they end up being way too capable. your ship is too small for good seakeeping - essential in an escort and carries too much armament IMHO. Not your fault. I think at these sizes for slower ships one should try and keep te composite strength over 2.0

cheers

Bernhard

AdmKuznetsov
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 40
(5/8/03 8:59:59 am)
Reply Re: Hear are two firgates i have been working on
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Ya mean I've got to go and redesign about 8 classes of corvette/patrol/mine warfare ships?? Jeeeez

Seriously, I did some sims of pre-1910 destroyers of about 400-450 tons, I found that I had to accept low hull strength to get the historical speed/armament. But I agree that these little things weren't known for good seakeeping, while in Springstyle you can sometimes get their freeboard high enough to get "good seaboat" while avoiding design failure.

Here's one, of an early French torpedo boat:

Brandelbas Class Destroyer, laid down 1907
Length, 55.0 m x Beam, 6.0 m x Depth, 3.2 m
426 tonnes normal displacement (393 tonnes standard)
Main battery: 6 x 6.5-cm
Secondary battery: 2 x 4.5-cm
Light battery: 4 x 1.3-cm
Weight of broadside: 26 kg
3 TT, 45.0 cm
Hull unarmored
Maximum speed for 7679 indicated kw = 27.00 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 1700 nm / 10 knots
Typical complement: 47-61

Estimated cost, $219,000 (£55,000)
Remarks:
Caution: Hull structure is subject to strain in open-sea
conditions.
Caution: Magazines and engineering spaces are very cramped,
and lack adequate watertight subdivision.
Caution: Delicate, lightwight machinery.
Cramped ship; poor crew accommodation, limited working space.

Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:
Armament ......................... 7 tonnes = 2 pct
Machinery ........................ 253 tonnes = 59 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 100 tonnes = 24 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 46 tonnes = 11 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 20 tonnes = 5 pct
-----
426 tonnes = 100 pct
Estimated metacentric height, 0.2 m
Displacement summary:
Light ship: 380 tonnes
Standard displacement: 393 tonnes
Normal service: 426 tonnes
Full load: 450 tonnes
Loading submergence 180 tonnes/metre
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.14
Shellfire needed to sink: 31 kg = 8.1 x 6.5-cm shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.1
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform, 55 percent
(50 percent is 'average')
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.32
Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.11
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.40
Sharpness coefficient: 0.31
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 7.33
'Natural speed' for length = 13.4 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 72 percent

Estimated hull characteristics and strength:
Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 209 percent
Relative accommodation and working space: 51 percent

Displacement factor: 18 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)

Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.45
(Structure weight per square
metre of hull surface: 104 kg)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.73
(for 3.40 m average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +0.94 m)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.54
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]
180.40 x 19.68 x 10.50; 11.15 -- Dimensions
0.40 -- Block coefficient
1907 -- Year laid down
27.00 / 1700 / 10.00; Reciprocating -- Speed / radius / cruise
20 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
6 x 2.56; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
:
2 x 1.77; 0 -- Secondary battery; turrets
:
0 -- No tertiary (QF/AA) battery
4 x 0.51 -- Fourth (light) battery
3 / 0 / 17.72 -- TT / submerged / size
++++++++++
0.00 -- No belt armor
0.00 / 0.00 -- Deck / CT
0.00 -- No battery armor

(Note: For portability, values are stored in Anglo-American units)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Visit my Russian/French fantasy fleet page:
admkuznetsov.tripod.com



The Rock Doctor
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 72
(5/8/03 11:02:20 am)
Reply Small ships
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It seems to me that small ship designs really hinge on the speed you're working with, more so than the larger ships. That might be a factor of the "natural speed" of the hull - I dunno.

But, it seems that, proportionally, the machinery seems to take up more space in small craft, and that affects your hull strength, which affects how much freeboard you can have, etc. But that could just be me.

Here's a sloop design that I've been contemplating, and then a torpedo boat after it. Note that the miscellaneous weight would be for depth charges or mines, respectively:

sloop, laid down 1922

Length, 290 ft x Beam, 29.0 ft x Depth, 9.0 ft
1081 tons normal displacement (922 tons standard)

Main battery: 3 x 4.1-inch
Secondary battery: 4 x 1.4-inch
AA battery: 4 x 0.6-inch

Weight of broadside: 109 lbs

Main belt, 1.0 inches; full length
Armor deck, average 0.5 inches
C.T., 2.0 inches

Battery armor:
Main, 1.0" shields / secondary, 1.0" shields
AA, 1.0" shields

Maximum speed for 4348 shp = 20.00 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 7000 nm / 12 kts

Typical complement: 94-123


Estimated cost, $691,000 (£173,000)

Remarks:

Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform.

Excellent seaboat; comfortable and able to fight her guns
in the heaviest weather.

Magazines and engineering spaces are roomy, with superior
watertight subdivision.

Ship is roomy, with superior accommodation and working space.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 14 tons = 1 pct
Armor, total ..................... 133 tons = 12 pct

Belt 74 tons = 7 pct
Deck 49 tons = 5 pct
C.T. 5 tons = 0 pct
Armament 5 tons = 0 pct

Machinery ........................ 147 tons = 14 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 578 tons = 53 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 190 tons = 18 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 20 tons = 2 pct
-----
1081 tons = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 1.0 ft

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 892 tons
Standard displacement: 922 tons
Normal service: 1081 tons
Full load: 1204 tons

Loading submergence 151 tons/foot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.14

Shellfire needed to sink: 2701 lbs = 78.4 x 4.1-inch shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.3
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 86 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.20

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.91

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.50
Sharpness coefficient: 0.33
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 8.63
'Natural speed' for length = 17.0 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 48 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 57 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 128 percent


Displacement factor: 194 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.31
(Structure weight per square
foot of hull surface: 62 lbs)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.20
(for 12.0 ft average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +2.3 ft)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.38

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

290.00 x 29.00 x 9.00; 12.00 -- Dimensions
0.50 -- Block coefficient
1922 -- Year laid down
20.00 / 7000 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
20 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
3 x 4.10; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
Gun-shields
:
4 x 1.40; 0 -- Secondary battery; turrets
Gun-shields
:
4 x 0.60 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
0 -- No fourth (light) battery
0 -- No torpedo armament
++++++++++
1.00 / 1.00 / 0.00 / 0.00; 100 -- Belt armor; relative extent
0.50 / 2.00 -- Deck / CT
1.00 / 1.00 / 1.00 / 0.00 -- Battery armor




torpedo boat, laid down 1921

Length, 230 ft x Beam, 23.0 ft x Depth, 9.0 ft
544 tons normal displacement (498 tons standard)

Main battery: 1 x 3.5-inch
Secondary battery: 2 x 1.4-inch
AA battery: 2 x 0.6-inch

Weight of broadside: 24 lbs

4 TT, 19.7"

Hull unarmored

Battery armor:
Main, 1.0" shields / secondary, 1.0" shields
AA, 1.0" shields

Maximum speed for 21214 shp = 32.00 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 3000 nm / 12 kts

Typical complement: 56-73


Estimated cost, $626,000 (£157,000)

Remarks:

Caution: Hull structure is subject to strain in open-sea
conditions.

Magazines and engineering spaces are cramped, with poor
watertight subdivision.

Cramped ship; poor crew accommodation, limited working space.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 3 tons = 1 pct
Armor, total ..................... 2 tons = 0 pct

Armament 2 tons = 0 pct

Machinery ........................ 300 tons = 55 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 171 tons = 31 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 59 tons = 11 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 10 tons = 2 pct
-----
544 tons = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 0.8 ft

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 485 tons
Standard displacement: 498 tons
Normal service: 544 tons
Full load: 579 tons

Loading submergence 82 tons/foot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.21

Shellfire needed to sink: 151 lbs = 7.1 x 3.5-inch shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.2
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 58 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.10

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.15

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.40
Sharpness coefficient: 0.30
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 8.61
'Natural speed' for length = 15.2 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 74 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 184 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 72 percent


Displacement factor: 36 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.46
(Structure weight per square
foot of hull surface: 26 lbs)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.60
(for 14.0 ft average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +5.5 ft)

Relative composite hull strength: 0.55

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

230.00 x 23.00 x 9.00; 14.00 -- Dimensions
0.40 -- Block coefficient
1921 -- Year laid down
32.00 / 3000 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
10 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
1 x 3.50; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
Gun-shields
:
2 x 1.40; 0 -- Secondary battery; turrets
Gun-shields
:
2 x 0.60 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
0 -- No fourth (light) battery
4 / 0 / 19.70 -- TT / submerged / size
++++++++++
0.00 -- No belt armor
0.00 / 0.00 -- Deck / CT
1.00 / 1.00 / 1.00 / 0.00 -- Battery armor


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++