WesWorld

6. April 1943, 08.12 Uhr local time, somewhere over the Taklamakan Dessert

»T minus two minutes, time is running … now.«

Captain Gu Yu Wang looked just in time on his stopwatch to observe, how the backwards-running clock jumped around. Punctual on the second - he thought. With his left hand he pressed a button to talk to the monitoring frequency.

»Viper Two-One«, he reported. »CROWBAR, Viper Two-One asked for passing to target approach.«

»Please wait, Two-One.« Waiting ? Hardly .... he thought. Gu Yu Wang and his partner, Captain Huang Mao-kun, were flying with a GA-5 bomber in sixty meters. Waiting signifies, that they came quickly closer to their destination. The GA-5 was the first in China developed and built heavy bomber. Now, however, all the aircrafts were no longer in active service, only the Air Battle Force flew as the only active unit this machine. Their GA-5 could carry about 6000 kg bombs, but Wang and Mao-kun had this morning only a single bomb on board - but what a bomb !
This officially FL-96 (FL= Fai Long [Flying Dragon]) designated bomb was the most effective weapon in the chinese arsenal, it contained nearly 800 liters of a thin liquid flame oil, which spread over the target area and then ignited. Provoked by the detonation produced a hundreds of meters high mushroom cloud, a fireball with one and a half miles in diameter and a shock wave that uproot trees and demolish houses in a radius of three kilometers.

This was the final test of such a weapon before it was declared operational.

»Viper, here CROWBAR, free inflight in R-4808N and R-4806W, Height two-zero-zero Feet. Stay on that frequency. Confirm. "

Gu Yu Wang looked on his watch. »Viper confirmed. Free for inflight in Romeo 4808 North and Romeo 4806 West, Height two-zero-zero, Stay on frequency. Over.«

As he turned to Huang Mao-kun, he automatically checked the engine instruments and fuel gauges in the center console between them. »We have the release, Huang.« Mao-kun's answer was a two-time click on its talk button. Mao-kun never talked much in a sortie: Its mission is to fly the aircraft, and he did it with stoic calm.

Gu Yu Wang spoke again: "CROWBAR, Viper Two-One on target approach, ready for bombing, T minus sixty seconds. Over. "

Then he need only a few seconds to press the switch for the bombing and to hand over the aircraft to the bombardier.

The target was a five-story concrete tower, which was surrounded by trucks, tanks and armored vehicles, as well as about a hundred mannequins in all sorts of uniforms and overalls up to heavy protective equipment. Around ground zero wooden shelters were built at intervals of three hundred meters, where the effect of the shock wave could be read.

»T minus thirty seconds«,announced Gu Yu Wang.

Everything was normal. The bombardier convinced himself that the target lay in the crosshairs, took a tiny correction and told to Mao-kun, "Ready for dropping".

"Confirmed", Mao-kun replied. "Ready for return … ready … ready … now." He said it as calmly as he described how a porcelain cup was filled on a tea party - while he headed jerk a tight left turn and pulled back his steeringhorn. During the tight curve Mao-kun grunted: "Stand by for droping ... ready ... ready ... NOW."

"Here CROWBAR, good shot , real good shot", Gu Yu Wang heard on the radio. "All stations ... Attention!"

Mao-kun just had ended their 180-degree turn when a bright white flash of light illuminated the cockpit. All men instinctively clutched their handles or control devices before the GA-5 was hit by a mighty thunderbolt. The blast break out the tail of the bomber in a wide arc to the left, but Mao-kun was prepared for it and steered the aircraft very sensitive.
»Huang – everything all right with you ?« Gu Yu shouted. The flash of light had the effect that he had stars on his eyes, but he had no pain.To read the instruments, he had to take off his dark sunglasses. Mao-kun also took off his dark glasses. "Yeah, Gu Yu, everything fine." His left hand was back on the throttles, after he had quickly checked the instruments, he took his customary attitude - easily stretched his head forward, the eyes in constant motion, the hands on stick and throttles.

»CROWBAR, Viper Two-One speaking, condition green«, Gu Yu Wang reported to the base. »Request for approval for an overflight of ground zero.«

»Please wait, Viper.« This time, the break was shorter »Viper Two-One, Overflight allowed.«

The devastating effect of the FL-96 was obvious when they were on opposite course. Around the smoking ruins of the target tower a circular burn mark with more than one kilometer in diameter was clearly visible. Tanks and armoured vehicles were overturned and partially messed thrown; of normal trucks only annealed steel skeleton were left. Still in three kilometers fences were scorched or overturned, and all the mannequins were disappeared regardless of their uniforms.

»My Goodness … «, Gu Yu Wang muttered. While Gu Yu Wang watched how Huang Mao-kun took the aircraft back on course, he was still under the strong impression that the Fai Long had made on him. What a devastating weapon, he was still thinking !

Just the fact that a plane could drop a bomb that destroyed all life within a radius of two to three kilometers was quite staggering. But fortunately at present no threat recorded that could justify the use of the Fai Long. Many states, that were formerly known as aggressors, now tried to solve their conflicts at the negotiating table. Civil war there continued, but no state wanted to lead war against another, because the possibility of massive retaliation even numerically inferior forces was a demonstrable reality.
From Gu Yu Wangs point of view, it was better to have weapons such as the FL-96 in ammunition bunkers or destroy them, as really use them.

OOC - I find a fuel air explosive bomb *really* early for 1943.

OOC:
The first experiments of thermobaric weapons were conducted in Germany during World War II. The German bombs used coal dust as fuel and were extensively tested in 1943 and 1944, but did not reach mass production before the war ended.

The good old "Greek Fire" was used in the 7th century, Phosporbombs were used in WW1 and last but not least Napalm was invented in 1942.

I was planning on testing a similar weapon which the designers based on the Washburn A Mill explosion of 1878 (so the test would have been done with flour).

Guess I will have to take the next step...

Quoted

Originally posted by parador
OOC:
The first experiments of thermobaric weapons were conducted in Germany during World War II. The German bombs used coal dust as fuel and were extensively tested in 1943 and 1944, but did not reach mass production before the war ended.

The good old "Greek Fire" was used in the 7th century, Phosporbombs were used in WW1 and last but not least Napalm was invented in 1942.

No one is arguing the existence of incendiary weapons of various sorts prior to 1943; however, I would like to see a reference or two on the thermobaric weapons you've cited.

It's indicated on wiki though I did not see an indication of how it was tested right away. I think it is more likely they tested it on the gound and did not drop it from a plane.

... hmmm... from the first things I could find in German, I get the impression that the Germans were looking for its use in AA rockets (at least if I read things correctly)...

In 1943, the first test with a 60kg heavy thermobaric device took place...

Tested at the exercise area Doeberitz and over the Starnberger See...

Done with 60% liquid oxygen and 40% coal dust...

So looking at that, it is quite possible that stuff was initially done on land but the stuff done over the Starnberger See is probably air dropped.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Zippermayr

Quoted

Found on the source, Roo mentioned:

Bei Ende des Krieges war die Produktion größerer Bomben mit flüssigem Sauerstoff in Nordhausen in Vorbereitung.

or with other words:

At the end of the war, the production of large bombs with liquid oxygen was in preparation at Nordhausen / KZ Dora.

Even so, the LOx is probably just the oxidizer, not the explosive stuff itself. No idication what they were going to add to it.

Couple of more things in this post here...
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/in….html#msg133905

Interesting article.

I note that it bears a warning that it lacks insufficient documentation. Coal dust + liquid air does not equal thin liquid petroleum... byt that is just detail.

So the first tests were allegedly done on a 60 kg device and that purportedly larger weapons were in production by 1945... and China runs its first? test on a 600kg air-dropped device.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
Even so, the LOx is probably just the oxidizer, not the explosive stuff itself. No idication what they were going to add to it.

Couple of more things in this post here...
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/in….html#msg133905

They quote the same garbled report in NARA. The fact that one internet site quotes from another doesn't make it any more factual. I'm not saying that exploratory work of this source was not done; but to start with a big-bang-bomb is highly unlikely...and improbable... and hard to swallow.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
and hard to swallow.

Seconded.

To be honest, I'm really starting to wonder where a lot of these Chinese weapons are coming from. Let's face it - China's not exactly the richest country in the game. But from watching the Chinese news, they're getting more new toys and more R&D stuff than economic Great Powers like Britain or the US. I might buy into that if China was industrialized on a 1990s level, but it's starting to tax my credulity when 1943 China tests stuff that Germany tested late in World War II...

(Note: please don't take this as an automatic shoot-down of the idea. I can accept some things showing up earlier than historical, provided there's good justification. I'm just feeling the justification is getting paper-thin and is starting to fray along the edges...)

Hmmm, all seems dubious to me. Even if the coal dust was as effective (actually wouldn't coal dust be easier for the Chinese to obtain) it seems crazy to scale it from 60 to 600kg. If we had seen smaller examples being tested then it might have been different. Instead it looks like the thing has been scaled up right from the lab bench.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Hmmm, all seems dubious to me. Even if the coal dust was as effective (actually wouldn't coal dust be easier for the Chinese to obtain) it seems crazy to scale it from 60 to 600kg. If we had seen smaller examples being tested then it might have been different. Instead it looks like the thing has been scaled up right from the lab bench.

The point is, the weapon, as described, includes 800 litres of a thin liquid flame oil - whatever that is meant to mean. There is no mention of a LOX oxidizer, or coal dust, wheat dust or tapioca. And you are quite correct, it looks to have emerged out of nowhere.

I have long considered how or will i answer. Finally i thought to myself, I will write down my point of views. Now you can decide if you still want to have me here or not.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
Interesting article.
I note that it bears a warning that it lacks insufficient documentation. Coal dust + liquid air does not equal thin liquid petroleum... byt that is just detail.
So the first tests were allegedly done on a 60 kg device and that purportedly larger weapons were in production by 1945... and China runs its first? test on a 600kg air-dropped device.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
They quote the same garbled report in NARA. The fact that one internet site quotes from another doesn't make it any more factual. I'm not saying that exploratory work of this source was not done; but to start with a big-bang-bomb is highly unlikely...and improbable... and hard to swallow.

This test would and could sure not have been the first test of such a weapon. I have to agree with you to 100%. This test could not be the start. This test was rather intended as a final test, definetely a number of smaller tests went ahead.

Let's turn back the time a little bit .... we write the year 1943... no world-wide-web .... no global 24h live coverage. Now a number of bomb testings are performed somewhere in the Chinese desert. Beginning with a small 6kg Tests ..... growing permanently ... 23kg ..... 60kg ......100kg ....223kg ...... and least some hundreds kg with the peak test ... the described 600kg bombing test. Believe me, NOBODY would have noticed it, may be only the big boom - but the small ones sure won't be noticed by anyone outside China. This should not serve as justification, I just want to call to mind that we can not take the present media situation as a measure of the 40s.

By the way .... in OTL the allies was shocked about the amount of chemical weapons in german depots. They had neither any idea how many tons Germany possessed, nor they knew the exact number or type of the weapons. What I'm saying is, that we always think with today's knowledge and circumstances. Back in the 40s ..a large bomb test in the chinese desert .... no one would have cared about it.

I know ..... I have definitely described an aerosol bomb blast up there. If it is a too big problem .... take it as propaganda. Let the real effect of the weapon be much smaller than described.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Seconded.

To be honest, I'm really starting to wonder where a lot of these Chinese weapons are coming from. Let's face it - China's not exactly the richest country in the game. But from watching the Chinese news, they're getting more new toys and more R&D stuff than economic Great Powers like Britain or the US. I might buy into that if China was industrialized on a 1990s level, but it's starting to tax my credulity when 1943 China tests stuff that Germany tested late in World War II...

(Note: please don't take this as an automatic shoot-down of the idea. I can accept some things showing up earlier than historical, provided there's good justification. I'm just feeling the justification is getting paper-thin and is starting to fray along the edges...)

Don't worry, neither I'll take it personally, nor I am offended.
You are surely right, China is certainly not the richest country in the game, but it's definitely not the poor land of farmers, such as some may think here.

Let us compare the situation of China with OTL ... There was neither a first nor a second Sino-Japanese War - on the contrary, Japan is THE BIG ally of China and there is a lively exchange in all areas. Second there is and was no civil war, which disabilities the development of the country or flung it far back. And if the OTL China was able to develop not only double-decker aircrafts but also modern aircrafts (http://www.fliegerweb.com/geschichte/flu…how=lexikon-447), then surely it is also possible that Wesworld China will be on the state of the art, which it is now (with the technical help of Japan, Bharat, South Africa and Germany). Furthermore, there was also the OTL Sino-German cooperation .... in OTL it was stifled by Hitler's Germany ... in Wesworld it was sparser much later.

But if we compare China ... how does it look in other countries ? Turbojets growing like mushrooms .... Suddenly they are developed everywhere. Only for what reason ? Which war has demonstrated that propeller aircrafts are no longer sufficient ? Or how it looks with the navies of other nations (be sure i KNOW that the chinese navy is also far bigger than OTL) ? I make no accusation, i only raise questions.
For example, Germany has a navy that quite withstand a comparison with the OTL Z-plan navy of Hitler-Germany. Nowadays, it is proved that the third reich neither could build this fleet, nor still maintain it. Why can it Wesworld Germany, which has the same economic requirements as the real Germany ? (please do not take it personally Bruce .... as said i only asked questions. If we say that some technical developments can not be, because China is underdeveloped and didn't have the economic background, the same standards should apply to other countries. )
Or let us look to the russian federation, i think we all agree, Russia was not one of the leading industrial nations of the world in the 30s and 40s. How is it capable, that this country could maintain such a fleet ?

I hope I have not offended anyone. If so, I apologize, that was not my intention. I just had to write this now.

Quoted

Originally posted by parador
I have long considered how or will i answer. Finally i thought to myself, I will write down my point of views. Now you can decide if you still want to have me here or not.

Replying OOC of course,

I don't believe that anyone wants you to leave the game - I certainly don't.

When it comes to the question of major developments - such as the weapon is question - it is the small steps of development - the bench tests, the small scale tests, the initial failures - that establish in a story line the acceptance of something. All too often, Chinese story lines seem to emerge full-blown out of no-where. This strains my credulity regarding the development.

In the case of the particular weapon in question, in tracking down the links provided I discovered that there is was - at least to my mind - serious question as to the validity of the so-called "source". They all led back to a popular book on German secret weapons published in 2007 - one critiziced roundly for its lack of original sources. Hence my skepticism on the technological feasibilty of such a weapon in the 1943 timeframe.

If China is relying on technical assistance from outside powers it would help establish the validity of some new weapons system by mentioning that assistance during the development cycle; rarely do I see this, and then, it is done after the fact. Such technical assistance would be more believeable if the assisting power has already demonstrated - via storyline - that it has pursued the line of development for which it is providing assistance.

11. April 1943, 11.12 Uhr local time, somewhere in Beijing

Air Force Colonel Wang Hongju folded the document carefully and looked up at Admiral Yibo Yunsheng.

"Are our scientists really capable to build such a weapon ? With this weapon we could finally pay back the Filipinos for our loss of face in the war. Then they would see what China is capable of and that you better not mess with the Chinese dragon."

Admiral Yibo Yunsheng smiled amused "Dear Wang, now you see what possibilities we have here at our Secret Service even if YOU keep our report for reality. I have to disappoint you. This report was written by my department to 'scare' our enemies and their secret services a little bit. The story is based only on theoretical calculations, unfortunately it will take years before our research is really capable to develop such a bomb. Here is the true result of the test." the admiral gave a further document to Wang Hongju.

Wang Hongju scanned the report and thought "Total Weight 500kg .. well at least that was true ... Liquid fire mass of 30% gasoline and 70% crude oil ... hmmmm .... Flame with about 45 meters in diameter with a burning time of approximately 20 seconds..... this differs diametrically from the report"

Wang looked up at Admiral Yunsheng "And so this is the true result of the test ?"

"Yes. We tested this bomb and nothing else." the Admiral answered "and the production is started."

"At least somewhat ...." Colonel Hongju thought..."I surely would prefer the 'hypothetical version' of the bomb, but with this real bomb we can already start something."

"Could i have some tea please ?" Hongju asked and smiled ........

Ah! Nervenkrieg...