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Bulgarian AT gun Request for Proposal

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Brockpaine

The Shadow

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1

Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 7:27pm

Bulgarian AT gun Request for Proposal

The Bulgarian Army is seeking an anti-tank gun suitable for use against most modern tanks. The requirements stress portability and low cost.

perdedor99

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 7:51pm

India could offer this:

Anti Tank Guns

Jabalpur 28 (1929 - 1935)
35mm gun, 45 caliber
500 lbs weight
Penetration:
40mm@30 degrees@100m
33mm@30 degrees@300m
26mm@30 degrees@1000m

Notes: Current antitank gun of the new design divisions. Production expected to increase in the future.

Bhandahar 1931 (1932-1935)
25mm, gas operated semiauto
90" length
54" barrel length
120 lbs weight
5 round integrated box magazine
Penetration: 30mm@100m

Notes: An Indian design. Used by cavalry units and the old design infantry as being a weapon easy to build and giving good penetration for his size. Could be broken down into two parts for easier carrying, with ammunition being carried by a third person.

Rooijen10

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 8:15pm

Available from Japan...

Type 94 37mm Anti-Tank Gun


Type 93 25 mm AT/AA Gun


(Weapon data can be found in the "AT/AA Guns" thread here)
(not sure about it but it looks like I might need to recheck the weight data)
(edit: looks like the 37mm weight was gun weight while hte 25mm weights were of the naval mounts)

And if the Bulgarian Army is interested (though currently available in extremely limited numbers)
Type 95 20 mm AT Rifle


(Weapon data can be found in the "Cavalry/Infantry Weapons" thread here)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Mar 5th 2008, 8:25pm)

Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 8:24pm



Italian/Austrian 47mm/32

A 2.37kg HE round (fired at 250m/s) is also available for use as infantry support. There are some good videos of it in action on youtube if you fancy a watch.

Barrel Length : 1,680 m
Total Weight : 277 Kg
Elevation : -10° to +56°
Traverse : 60°
Rate of Fire : 7-8 coups/minute
Muzzle Velocity : 630 m/s
Range : 7 Km
Penetration : 50mm at 500m

Rooijen10

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 8:28pm

Not going to offer this one, Gavin?

I would expect that the dead chickens on those helmets would help boost the sale of the weapon tremendously. :D

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Mar 5th 2008, 8:29pm)

Red Admiral

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 8:40pm

I'm not sure its proper for Italy to re-sell Solothurn's anti-tank rifles.

Those hats are almost as good as the ones these guys have;

Rooijen10

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 8:50pm

Quoted

I'm not sure its proper for Italy to re-sell Solothurn's anti-tank rifles.

Of course it is, especially when money is involved. :)

Quoted

Those hats are almost as good as the ones these guys have;

Hmmm...
"Buy Italian!! With the purchase each rifle or AT gun, get one helmet with a dead chicken on it for free!"
:D

Desertfox

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 9:17pm

Mexico can offer an AT Gun version of the 50cal MG. Best portable AT gun on the market.

Hrolf Hakonson

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 10:13pm

Is Bulgaria looking for an AT gun, or for an AT rifle? The two are rather different.....

Rheinmetall can offer it's 37mm AT gun.

Solothurn of Switzerland has several versions of it's S18 AT rifle that it can offer, the S18-100 in 20 x 105mm and the S18-1000 in 20 x 138mm.

Germany also has the obsolete 13mm PzB 31 that it can pass along to Bulgaria inexpensively.

Rooijen10

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 10:35pm

Well, a rifle is a gun, but a gun doesn't necessarily have to be a rifle. As far as I know, the Bulgarian army is looking for AT guns, which is why I stated "if the Bulgarian Army is interested" as they were not asking for an AT rifle, but the option does exist to purchase them.

Brockpaine

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 10:39pm

I might as well be looking for both AT artillery pieces and AT rifles.

BTW, Red Admiral, did Italy make the Brixia Model 35 light 45mm mortar? I saw a video of that in action and it looked like it might be very useful for my mountain troops...

Kaiser Kirk

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 10:47pm

Belgium has their OTL FRC 47L30 mod. 31
There were towed and fortification mounts. The was an infantry model with rubber rimmed wheels and a cavalry with pneumatic rubber tires to allow higher speed and better cross-country performance.

C 47 L/30 D - 47 mm Anti-Tank Gun Technical Data

Country of Origin:
Belgium

Manufacturer:
Fonderie Royale de Canons, Herstal (Belgium)

Role:
Heavy anti-tank Cannon

Calibre
47 mm

Length of barrel
1.435 m

Traverse
20°L / 20° R (towed version) 8° L / 8° R (bunker mount) 20°L / 20° R (sphere mount)

Elevation
- 3° to +20°

Muzzle velocity
675 m/sec (AP) / 450 m/sec (HE)

Projectile weight
1.560 kg (AP) / 1.665 (HE)

Effective range
2,000 m

The Netherlands has a WW 45mm ATG designed on their behalf by Skoda. It was "created" by blending several OTL 45-47mm guns.

M1934 45mm L48, Mv 850m/s, 1.4kg shell. 600kg, designed to be broken into pack loads

For ATRs the Dutch use a 13.2mm and the Solothurn 20mm.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Kaiser Kirk" (May 2nd 2008, 7:30am)

Rooijen10

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 11:21pm

Quoted

Projectile weight
1,560 kg (AP) / 1,665 (HE)

Hmmm... a 47mm shell that is heavier than the 46cm shells that Japan's Yamato will use... :)

... then again, it is a BELGIAN weapon. :D

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Mar 5th 2008, 11:26pm)

Red Admiral

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 11:37pm

The joys of the decimal comma system at work...


Quoted

BTW, Red Admiral, did Italy make the Brixia Model 35 light 45mm mortar? I saw a video of that in action and it looked like it might be very useful for my mountain troops...


I couldn't really decide wether to adopt it or not given the conflciting accounts. I also saw a video of it in action the other day, with just one man, the firing cycle seems to be about 3-4secs which is pretty good. With another crewman to load the bombs I can see this getting to the 2s firing cycle I see on some sites. It is a bit complicated, but reliability doesn't seem to have been a problem. The breech loading makes horizontal fire possible as well, which may be a bonus in some situations. Italy did adopt some HESH and HEAT rounds for the 47mm guns. The downside is the small explosive charge in the 45mm projectile and the relatively short range, but it'll be more accurate than rifle grenades.

Kaiser Kirk

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 11:43pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10

Quoted

Projectile weight
1,560 kg (AP) / 1,665 (HE)

Hmmm... a 47mm shell that is heavier than the 46cm shells that Japan's Yamato will use... :)

... then again, it is a BELGIAN weapon. :D


Hey, it came from a website, how could it be in error??

Of course, having a seperate ammo truck for each round may strike some as a negative... :)

I think RA's got the right of this one.

As for the Brexia.. I've been comtemplating that one as well, but more for jungle applications. The Italians had a bunch of fairly nifty gear.

Rooijen10

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Wednesday, March 5th 2008, 11:44pm

Either the shells are 1560 and 1665 kg heavy and the barrel is almost a mile long (overlooked that one), or the gun has a range of only 2 meters. :D

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Mar 5th 2008, 11:45pm)

Brockpaine

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Thursday, March 6th 2008, 12:12am

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
Either the shells are 1560 and 1665 kg heavy and the barrel is almost a mile long (overlooked that one), or the gun has a range of only 2 meters. :D

*Reads above posts*

*Spits tea out his nose*

*Cackles like a drunken jackal for fifteen minutes*

thesmilingassassin

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Thursday, March 6th 2008, 6:44am

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
Mexico can offer an AT Gun version of the 50cal MG. Best portable AT gun on the market.


Great minds think alike I suppose. I was considering the same thing as I already have my own 50 cal weapon in service. Makes sence to use it to develope an AT rifle.

As for AT guns Belgium may find an interested customer for its 47mm gun in Atlantis, who currently lacks a dedicated AT gun. Another option would be to licence build either the French AC-47 or 47mm APX.

Desertfox

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Thursday, March 6th 2008, 6:51am

Well the 50cal was a decent AT gun and was the only such US AT gun in the inter-war years. But it is quite a heavy weapon to lug around. Hence Mexico developed a single shot version with same ballistics and ammo as the original. It should make a decent AT gun for the time being, and a hell of a good sniper rifle, but that is for the future.

Atlantis should take a look at buying the Mexican 47mm gun. It's the same one used on the AT-27 tanks.

thesmilingassassin

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Thursday, March 6th 2008, 6:58am

Correction, the Mexican AT-27 tanks. Given my propensity to base my weapons off of French designs it might make sence for the mexican and Atlantean 47mm guns to be of a similar design to either French weapon.

The notion could be that the Atlantean military was torn between a 37mm or 47mm AT gun, while the Mexicans made the snap choice of producing the French APX. hench you have the Mexicans using a 47mm AT gun on their tanks in an effort to standardise their weapons and the Atlanteans opting for the 37mm and 57mm guns on their tanks and the adoption of the 47mm AT gun at a later date.
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