WesWorld

Three ships for your perusal: the newest 8" gunned ships to grace the Royal Navy; an experimental cruiser with a transom stern and 24.5" torpedoes; and the latest production ship.

There's a new one coming soon, but I've not done design work yet. Should be coming up this week, though.

With any luck, you'll get some pictures, too...

[hr]
HMS Howe, Royal Navy Heavy Cruiser laid down 1927

Displacement:
9,655 t light; 10,072 t standard; 11,432 t normal; 12,520 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
610.89 ft / 603.00 ft x 63.50 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
186.20 m / 183.79 m x 19.35 m x 6.71 m

Armament:
8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 290.00lbs / 131.54kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.00lbs / 15.88kg shells, 1927 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns (4x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1927 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,632 lbs / 1,194 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 125
8 - 24.5" / 622.3 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.50" / 114 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.50" / 114 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 78,294 shp / 58,407 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,448 tons

Complement:
552 - 718

Cost:
£3.379 million / $13.516 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 292 tons, 2.6 %
Armour: 2,068 tons, 18.1 %
- Belts: 773 tons, 6.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 336 tons, 2.9 %
- Armour Deck: 959 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,471 tons, 21.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,723 tons, 41.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,778 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,336 lbs / 6,957 Kg = 59.9 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.475
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.22 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.50 ft / 8.38 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 27.50 ft / 8.38 m
- Mid (50 %): 27.50 ft / 8.38 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 21.25 ft / 6.48 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.4 %
Waterplane Area: 25,929 Square feet or 2,409 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 559 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.61
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


[hr]HMS Fox, United Kingdom Light Cruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
7,506 t light; 7,853 t standard; 8,994 t normal; 9,906 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
581.83 ft / 570.00 ft x 59.00 ft x 19.50 ft (normal load)
177.34 m / 173.74 m x 17.98 m x 5.94 m

Armament:
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 112.00lbs / 50.80kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 35.00lbs / 15.88kg shells, 1925 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8 mounts), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,133 lbs / 514 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
12 - 24.5" / 622.3 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.50" / 89 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 69,036 shp / 51,501 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 9,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,053 tons

Complement:
461 - 600

Cost:
£2.259 million / $9.036 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 135 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 1,090 tons, 12.1 %
- Belts: 510 tons, 5.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 157 tons, 1.7 %
- Armour Deck: 423 tons, 4.7 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,241 tons, 24.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,889 tons, 43.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,488 tons, 16.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,350 lbs / 6,509 Kg = 132.9 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.71

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.66 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.39 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.50 ft / 9.91 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 27.50 ft / 8.38 m
- Mid (58 %): 27.50 ft / 8.38 m (19.50 ft / 5.94 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.50 ft / 5.94 m
- Stern: 19.50 ft / 5.94 m
- Average freeboard: 24.54 ft / 7.48 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.0 %
Waterplane Area: 22,876 Square feet or 2,125 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 458 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.89
- Longitudinal: 2.66
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


[hr]G Class, United Kingdom Light Cruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
7,501 t light; 7,851 t standard; 9,120 t normal; 10,135 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
587.83 ft / 578.00 ft x 59.00 ft x 19.50 ft (normal load)
179.17 m / 176.17 m x 17.98 m x 5.94 m

Armament:
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 112.00lbs / 50.80kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 35.00lbs / 15.88kg shells, 1925 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8 mounts), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,133 lbs / 514 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
6 - 24.5" / 622.3 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.50" / 89 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 79,978 shp / 59,663 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,284 tons

Complement:
466 - 606

Cost:
£2.421 million / $9.685 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 135 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 1,067 tons, 11.7 %
- Belts: 511 tons, 5.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 143 tons, 1.6 %
- Armour Deck: 413 tons, 4.5 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,597 tons, 28.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,552 tons, 39.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,619 tons, 17.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,939 lbs / 4,962 Kg = 101.3 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 12.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 46 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (58 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 19.04 ft / 5.80 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142.3 %
Waterplane Area: 22,317 Square feet or 2,073 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 486 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.01
- Longitudinal: 1.37
- Overall: 1.04
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Those are big fishes. How many tons will such a monster weight? How do you expect crews to handle them?

Howe; 290lb SAP shells? Armour isn't bad. Maybe a bit more range and seakeeping? Compared to COUNTY-class she is better armoured and armed, but worse suited for her task of of trade protection. I've included a sim of Kent below. Speed is understated as normal.

Fox: Experimental is probably the wrong word. Prototype would be better, as she still counts against cruiser tonnage. Why such high freeboard?

G: Whats all the misc. weight for? Planes and extra stores. Would you be better suited by Leander?

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Those are big fishes. How many tons will such a monster weight? How do you expect crews to handle them?

Well, I'm estimating the current version at just under 6,000 pounds, in a similar class to the Long Lance. Handling will clearly have to be power-assisted, with manpower only used to turn the things.

I don't really see this as a massive problem, as there's not going to be much need to shift torpedoes at sea. Unless something has reloads mounted.

RLBH

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
Howe; 290lb SAP shells? Armour isn't bad. Maybe a bit more range and seakeeping? Compared to COUNTY-class she is better armoured and armed, but worse suited for her task of of trade protection.

What revisions would you recommend? I've increased range - it's now on a par with historical designs from the late '30s. Also, seakeeping is now up.

Yes, the 290lb shells are SAP.

HMS Howe, Royal Navy Heavy Cruiser laid down 1927

Displacement:
9,707 t light; 10,130 t standard; 11,717 t normal; 12,986 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
625.89 ft / 618.00 ft x 63.50 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
190.77 m / 188.37 m x 19.35 m x 6.71 m

Armament:
8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 290.00lbs / 131.54kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.00lbs / 15.88kg shells, 1927 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns (4x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1927 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,632 lbs / 1,194 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 125
8 - 24.5" / 622.3 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 78,824 shp / 58,803 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,856 tons

Complement:
563 - 732

Cost:
£3.394 million / $13.577 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 292 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 2,015 tons, 17.2 %
- Belts: 688 tons, 5.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 344 tons, 2.9 %
- Armour Deck: 983 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,488 tons, 21.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,822 tons, 41.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,010 tons, 17.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,169 lbs / 7,334 Kg = 63.2 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.475
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.73 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.52 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.50 ft / 8.38 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 27.50 ft / 8.38 m
- Mid (50 %): 27.50 ft / 8.38 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 21.25 ft / 6.48 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.0 %
Waterplane Area: 26,574 Square feet or 2,469 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 557 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.53
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weight includes:

3 aircraft and support fittings (only 2 normally carried)

Quoted

G: Whats all the misc. weight for? Planes and extra stores. Would you be better suited by Leander?

Cut down the miscellaneous weight some, and also upped seakeeping and range some.

G Class, United Kingdom Light Cruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
7,504 t light; 7,865 t standard; 9,677 t normal; 11,127 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
607.83 ft / 598.00 ft x 59.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
185.27 m / 182.27 m x 17.98 m x 6.10 m

Armament:
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 112.00lbs / 50.80kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 35.00lbs / 15.88kg shells, 1925 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8 mounts), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,133 lbs / 514 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
6 - 24.5" / 622.3 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.50" / 89 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 81,433 shp / 60,749 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,262 tons

Complement:
487 - 634

Cost:
£2.443 million / $9.773 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 135 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 1,083 tons, 11.2 %
- Belts: 512 tons, 5.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 143 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 427 tons, 4.4 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,644 tons, 27.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,542 tons, 36.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,173 tons, 22.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,978 lbs / 5,433 Kg = 110.9 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 13.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (58 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 19.04 ft / 5.80 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.8 %
Waterplane Area: 23,089 Square feet or 2,145 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 466 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.25
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc. Weight includes:

Provision for 2 aircraft (only one usually carried)
6 reload torpedoes and handling gear

Quoted

Fox: Experimental is probably the wrong word. Prototype would be better, as she still counts against cruiser tonnage. Why such high freeboard?

Prototype probably is the best term. I've cut down the freeboard, increased range and made some other modifications. Misc. Weight is as per the G class.

HMS Fox, United Kingdom Light Cruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
7,492 t light; 7,862 t standard; 9,575 t normal; 10,946 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
608.19 ft / 598.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 19.50 ft (normal load)
185.38 m / 182.27 m x 18.29 m x 5.94 m

Armament:
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 112.00lbs / 50.80kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 35.00lbs / 15.88kg shells, 1925 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
8 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8 mounts), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,203 lbs / 546 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
6 - 24.5" / 622.3 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.50" / 89 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 70,542 shp / 52,624 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,083 tons

Complement:
483 - 629

Cost:
£2.302 million / $9.207 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 143 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 1,251 tons, 13.1 %
- Belts: 598 tons, 6.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 202 tons, 2.1 %
- Armour Deck: 451 tons, 4.7 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,290 tons, 23.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,706 tons, 38.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,084 tons, 21.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,989 lbs / 6,345 Kg = 129.5 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.479
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.98 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Mid (58 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 20.04 ft / 6.11 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.5 %
Waterplane Area: 24,385 Square feet or 2,265 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 135 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 475 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.33
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I like the idea of large 'miscellaneous weights".
Any ship is going to 'grow'. A lot of new equipment will be added over the lifespan. New AA guns, new electronic's, larger AC, large crew to man the new/revised equipment.
It would seem better to start with built in 'wiggle room' than to have every upgrade a trade off of what will be removed to compensate for what needs to be added.

Assumably Fox is only built so that you can get away with transoms 3/5 years early on the other 2 classes?

Testing the technology used by HMS Invincible and HMS Adventure to see if it is worth it for a cruiser-sized vessel? Transoms have disadvantages, SS doesn't take account of these.

Quoted

CWL = construction water line
lambda = wavelenght, generated by the vessel at a certain speed
amplitude = hight (or depression) maximum of generated wave, is in relationship to lambda.

Imagine a speed, generating a wavelenght equal to CWL (CWL = L) or one of it´s rational fractions [CWL = n X L)].
As the starting point of the generated wave is it´s initial positive maximum A(max), the situation on the stern is the same, e.g. generating a positive maximum amplitude or a mass of raised water to each side of the stern.

Imagine the opposite case, so chosen speed generates a wavelenght equal to o.5, 1.5, 2.5 or so on [CWL = (2n - 1)/2 x L], at stern there is the negative maximum of A.
(n, in both cases, is assumed to be a rational figure, e.g. 1,2,3,...)

1st case: a stagnant mass of water, just right after your stern.
2nd case: a stagnant depression, just right after your stern.

In the first case, you´re just "riding the wave" behind you, this hinders turbulence and hence suction; in the second case it´s just the other way round.
As amplitude increases with wave lenght, this effect grows with speed.
So for every hull there are lower speeds, seeing this effect just marginally at work, but two or more defined higher speeds when the transom stern does it´s best -or worst- for efficiency.

As this is just a rough attempt of explanation, be aware that in ship design n (which I said should be a rational figure) is chosen as a multiple of between 0.80 and 0.95, depending on ship´s lenght in ratio to speed.
E.g. have a look at a Schnellboot hull, or some supertankers.

And, for shure, this effect only works for surface vessels, as we are talking about longitudinal pressure waves, showing their effect on surface.
For a submerged vessel, this wouldn´t work.

http://forum.marinearchiv.de/viewtopic.php?t=372 (just the first post), or
http://forum.schlachtschiff.com/topic.as…07&SearchTerms=

Explanation of how a transom stern works by harold. The 2 addresses should be useful if you speak German.

Pretty cool links, thanks. ;o)

I like the CA in particular. If I'd been able to design one similar, I'd be planning for five of those rather than four larger types.

I'd like to know why you're going with the big 24.5" torpedo, though. Why not a greater number of 21" weapons? Wouldn't they be just as useful against most targets, and give a better chance of scoring a hit?

I'd expect he's using the 24.5" because of the increased range vs the 21" fish, and the increased warhead size. Also, at this point in time I think the 24.5" is the RN's most modern torpedo, though in RL it was only mounted on the Nelson class BBs.

I'm a little dubious about the transom stern on Howe in 1927, though: I got jumped on pretty hard for including it on a 1928 CL design when the historical German K-class CLs had one.

Gravina used them on his cut down G3's in 1921. As there is this example and no minelayer Adventure which was a wrong application of a transom having prototype ships like the F class seemed reasonable to me.

The F's don't complete trials and enter sevice until after the Howes lay down so a transom for these CA may be premature - but there is the G3 precedent.

The follow H class CL are from 1928 so could be improved F class.

I don't have a problem with German ships having transoms at this stage either - the historical precedent is fair enough by me.

Cheers,

Oh, I don't disagree with the precedent that's set by the Invincibles, I'm just pointing out that in previous designs there were certain members of the group that were sticking by the group's guideline of not before 1930 unless either small and fast or 34+ knots, regardless of precedent (real or in-sim).

The Admiral Lazarev class cruisers (1913) and the Novik class destroyers (1910) seem to have had them too, from drawings I've seen.

Novik looks like she has from drawings, but was also a minelayer which is a no no. Also, the later destroyers don't have one.

Adm. Lazarev does have a small one;



I'd like to point out again that SS doesn't accurately simulate the use of transom sterns.

Apologies for the delay. I've redesigned the Howes to remove the transom stern.

HMS Howe, Royal Navy Heavy Cruiser laid down 1927

Displacement:
9,700 t light; 10,164 t standard; 11,862 t normal; 13,220 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
615.64 ft / 610.00 ft x 68.25 ft x 19.00 ft (normal load)
187.65 m / 185.93 m x 20.80 m x 5.79 m

Armament:
8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 290.00lbs / 131.54kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.00lbs / 15.88kg shells, 1927 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns (4x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1927 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,632 lbs / 1,194 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 300.00 ft / 91.44 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
210.00 ft / 64.01 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 76 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 88,003 shp / 65,650 Kw = 31.35 kts
Range 10,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,056 tons

Complement:
567 - 738

Cost:
£3.541 million / $14.163 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 292 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 1,182 tons, 10.0 %
- Belts: 496 tons, 4.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 149 tons, 1.3 %
- Armour Deck: 525 tons, 4.4 %
- Conning Tower: 11 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 2,778 tons, 23.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,358 tons, 45.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,162 tons, 18.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
18,230 lbs / 8,269 Kg = 71.2 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.525
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.94 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Stern: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Average freeboard: 25.18 ft / 7.67 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 210.1 %
Waterplane Area: 28,381 Square feet or 2,637 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 564 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 2.00
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weight includes:

3 aircraft and support fittings (only 2 normally carried)

Uhm, I have to think you should check the belt armor again: a 2" belt and 4" end armor doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless you're doing something tricky, in which case I'm willing to be enlightened.

Also, the sea-keeping is great, but the high freeboard is hurting your protection, which is by far the weakest point on this design (now).

Engineering 2 inches and magazines 4 inches perhaps? Just saying something weird seeing that the needed coverage is 96.5 % and the main belt coverage is 76%.