WesWorld

Just put out there for consideration, here's another concept that was borne of the creations of one Admiral Craig "U Furashita" Burke - the Chichibu, an IJN Panzerschiffe. Granted, she's a little meaner than the Deutschlands. So, here we go. Based off a Mogami - I even built a model of this monster. For the record, her 16" guns are Superfiring over the 155mm mounts to close in the major guns' magazines under the belt space.

Chichibu, Japan Battlecruiser laid down 1939

Displacement:
24,543 t light; 25,550 t standard; 27,287 t normal; 28,676 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(664.29 ft / 661.42 ft) x 59.06 ft (Bulges 82.02 ft) x (19.32 / 20.59 ft)
(202.47 m / 201.60 m) x 18.00 m (Bulges 25.00 m) x (5.89 / 6.28 m)

Armament:
4 - 15.98" / 406 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,249.00lbs / 1,020.13kg shells, 75 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1914 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
6 - 6.10" / 155 mm 60.0 cal guns - 124.45lbs / 56.45kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1930 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 33.83lbs / 15.35kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
48 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.52lbs / 0.24kg shells, 150 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
16 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 10,038 lbs / 4,553 kg
Main Torpedoes
16 - 24.0" / 610 mm, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m torpedoes - 2.480 t each, 39.680 t total
In 4 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes
2nd Torpedoes
32 - 24.0" / 610 mm, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m torpedoes - 2.480 t each, 79.359 t total
In 4 sets of deck mounted reloads

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 529.61 ft / 161.43 m 9.22 ft / 2.81 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
5.00" / 127 mm 429.92 ft / 131.04 m 19.25 ft / 5.87 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 35.00 ft / 10.67 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
2nd: 8.00" / 203 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 5.00" / 127 mm

- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 5.00" / 127 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.00" / 127 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 135,324 shp / 100,952 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,126 tons

Complement:
1,060 - 1,379

Cost:
£13.123 million / $52.491 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,190 tons, 8.0 %
- Guns: 2,011 tons, 7.4 %
- Weapons: 179 tons, 0.7 %
Armour: 6,978 tons, 25.6 %
- Belts: 1,202 tons, 4.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,531 tons, 5.6 %
- Armament: 1,336 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 2,812 tons, 10.3 %
- Conning Tower: 98 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 3,661 tons, 13.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,614 tons, 42.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,744 tons, 10.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.4 %
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
47,974 lbs / 21,761 Kg = 23.5 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 3.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 18.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 36 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.911 / 0.898
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.33 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 24
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17.50 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 12.50 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 52.50 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Quarter deck: 17.50 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Average freeboard: 30.15 ft / 9.19 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 192.5 %
Waterplane Area: 38,396 Square feet or 3,567 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 806 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.89
- Longitudinal: 2.91
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room


Obviously, firing an alpha strike broadside would be a Bad idea in this ship, but given a more rolling fire broadside, I would imagine she might not be so bad. Thoughts?

Errr... having just 4 main guns means your ship will do terrible at firing half salvos.
Also, I think the AA suite is too weak for her size, not to mention you only have 150 shells per gun for all. Your belt armor also seems to be relatively thin, plus it appears that you have too much freeboard and too high of a block coefficient.

Some time ago I've been playing around with the idea of a French Pocket Battleship as a counter to the Deutschlands but also a cheaper alternatives to the Dunkerques. Works out as the following:

Gascogne, France Pocket Battleship laid down 1932 (Engine 1933)

Displacement:
18,620 t light; 19,805 t standard; 21,794 t normal; 23,385 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(665.37 ft / 656.17 ft) x 82.02 ft x (26.25 / 27.68 ft)
(202.80 m / 200.00 m) x 25.00 m x (8.00 / 8.44 m)

Armament:
8 - 12.01" / 305 mm 50.0 cal guns - 992.08lbs / 450.00kg shells, 125 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model
1 x Quad mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 x Quad mount on centreline, aft deck aft
12 - 4.92" / 125 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
40 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
10 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 80.0 cal guns - 0.28lbs / 0.13kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 8,688 lbs / 3,941 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.86" / 225 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100% of normal length
Main Belt inclined 15.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 73.82 ft / 22.50 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.86" / 225 mm, Aft 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 91,417 shp / 68,197 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 9,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,580 tons

Complement:
896 - 1,165

Cost:
£8.516 million / $34.066 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,682 tons, 7.7%
- Guns: 1,682 tons, 7.7%
Armour: 6,134 tons, 28.1%
- Belts: 1,730 tons, 7.9%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 587 tons, 2.7%
- Armament: 1,023 tons, 4.7%
- Armour Deck: 2,579 tons, 11.8%
- Conning Towers: 215 tons, 1.0%
Machinery: 2,664 tons, 12.2%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,940 tons, 36.4%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,175 tons, 14.6%
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.9%
- On freeboard deck: 150 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
30,301 lbs / 13,745 Kg = 35.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 15.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.549
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00%, 28.22 ft / 8.60 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 20.00%, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Aft deck: 45.00%, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00%, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Average freeboard: 19.71 ft / 6.01 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.9%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.5%
Waterplane Area: 38,730 Square feet or 3,598 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 766 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.43
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Just four main guns... did you happen to notice the Size? They're four 16" guns.

Yeah, the layout was done with Springsharp 2 originally, and I don't think I figured out how to assign proper ammo capacities for all. The AA suite... consider her secondary battery is also DP, in addition to her third battery, which were based around the Japanese 10cm mounting, which was a rather phenomenal AA gun.

I did the freeboard a while back, and looking at it, think I likely overdid the numbers, but I didn't have much to go from at the time and was centering it around the Mogami, so I just kinda guessed at some of the stuff I didn't know when starting out.

Quoted

Originally posted by Sauragnmon
Just four main guns... did you happen to notice the Size? They're four 16" guns.

Yes, I did notice that. However, your fire control personels will have tons of trouble finding the proper range to fire your guns. You need at least 6 main guns or else your accuracy will just stink. You don't want to have some big ass guns that can't hit anything right? :p

Quoted

Originally posted by SauragnmonYeah, the layout was done with Springsharp 2 originally, and I don't think I figured out how to assign proper ammo capacities for all. The AA suite... consider her secondary battery is also DP, in addition to her third battery, which were based around the Japanese 10cm mounting, which was a rather phenomenal AA gun.

Well, considering your 155mm DP guns are in triples, I seriously doubt their AA effectiveness. Also, there's just too few of your 100mms. I'd recommend at least doubling from 8 to 16.

These seem less like Panzershiffes, and more like a 15 year delayed reply to Courageous and Glorious.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
These seem less like Panzershiffes, and more like a 15 year delayed reply to Courageous and Glorious.

I was thinking about the same thing, and to be honest I don't consider them to be very successful designs...