WesWorld

Now the war is over thoughts go towards rebuilding the fleet and learning the lessons of that conflict.

The Project 706/707 Common Hull Destroyer from 1934 has been dusted off and redesigned with more powerful machinery and better weaponry. Note these are not fleet destroyers but second-line ones built for escorting. Six will be built, four ASW Ferre and two gun escort Granvilles. These will form the bulk of the ASW fleet with the converted Yucuman Class destroyers leaving the Mendoza Class and the 1936 and 1937 115mm DP armed destroyers as the main fleet escorts. One more 1937 Class DD will be built next year.


Project 406A Ferre Class, Argentina Frigate laid down 1938

Displacement:
1,090 t light; 1,131 t standard; 1,298 t normal; 1,431 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
332.79 ft / 327.43 ft x 29.53 ft x 10.17 ft (normal load)
101.43 m / 99.80 m x 9.00 m x 3.10 m

Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (2x2 guns), 30.42lbs / 13.80kg shells, 1933 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x6 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 131 lbs / 59 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
3rd: 0.47" / 12 mm - -

- Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 30.10 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 300 tons

Complement:
107 - 140

Cost:
£0.718 million / $2.871 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 16 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 16 tons, 1.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 8 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 539 tons, 41.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 434 tons, 33.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 208 tons, 16.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 85 tons, 6.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
589 lbs / 267 Kg = 19.3 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.45

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.462
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.58 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Stern: 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 15.28 ft / 4.66 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 151.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.0 %
Waterplane Area: 6,472 Square feet or 601 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 148 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.80
- Overall: 0.59
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Class names: Ferre, Patria, Alerta, Lynch

ASW Armament: 4 DCT and two racks (80 DC total) and four Italian 130mm A/S mortars (10 rounds per mortar)
Langhiri-Florisson ADSIC



Project 407B Granville Class, Argentina Escort Frigate laid down 1938

Displacement:
1,091 t light; 1,139 t standard; 1,306 t normal; 1,440 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
332.79 ft / 327.43 ft x 29.53 ft x 10.17 ft (normal load)
101.43 m / 99.80 m x 9.00 m x 3.10 m

Armament:
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (3x2 guns), 30.42lbs / 13.80kg shells, 1933 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x6 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 192 lbs / 87 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
3rd: 0.47" / 12 mm - -

- Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 30.06 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 302 tons

Complement:
108 - 141

Cost:
£0.746 million / $2.983 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 24 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 19 tons, 1.5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 528 tons, 40.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 454 tons, 34.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 216 tons, 16.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 65 tons, 5.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
590 lbs / 268 Kg = 19.3 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.41

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.465
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Stern: 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 15.28 ft / 4.66 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 150.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169.9 %
Waterplane Area: 6,489 Square feet or 603 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 154 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.81
- Overall: 0.59
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Class names: Granville, Guerrico
ASW Armamentt: Two DCT and two racks (30 DC total), one Langhiri-Florisson ASDIC

Quoted

Length to Beam Ratio: 11.09 : 1

This might be a problem, given that Argentina does have to operate in rough seas some of the time.....

They both look pretty good though I think two FC directors might be too much.

The Italian DC projector is a bit wrong. I was pretty much envisaging 4 standard type projectors mounted in a framework with varying angles to get a diamond pattern. Each would be loaded with 2 x 50kg depth charges (this was fairly common on Italian ships) with different sink rates so you get two diamond patterns on top of each other. Range is pretty short but so is the accuracy of the sonar. Something more streamlined will be developed but not yet given the lack of need. I'm not sure the Argentine war showed the need for improvements in ASW weaponry.

I like these ships.

I'm not sure the flush deck is best for seakeeping given the layout. However an existing hull design is being used. I would suggest a raised forecastle forwards of A mount like the postwar Whitbys. It should reduce spray quite a bit.

RA, I modelled the mortar based on the one on the back end of the Vespa. Certainly its more Limbo like than it should be but I guessed the tubes would move in elevation for re-loading etc. It could still fire a diamond pattern but always to starboard.

The war has shown you need ASDIC to find a target and then enough DCs to sink the target. Not sure how the mortar helps kill rates in practical use but the brass got all excited about what it might do. Really needs a depth-finding sonar to work properly (something GB is working on). The rounds are shaped like mortars so they fly nicely and sink quickly.

The after director is an AA director for the 37mm.
SS is not too bad on seakeeping but spray is a problem, hence the raised guns and high bridge. A Whitby style bow would be cool but just looks too 1950s for me although I do like that hull form very much.

Not quite a 1938 ship since it will be built this year.

To replace the old (1907) Parana and Rosario and the now stricken Patria. Parana (old) has been rebuilt and will serve as a gunnery training ship.

Project 616 Parana, Rosario, Patria, Pilcomayo , Argentina River Gunboat laid down 1938

Displacement:
432 t light; 460 t standard; 501 t normal; 533 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
231.09 ft / 229.66 ft x 26.25 ft x 6.56 ft (normal load)
70.44 m / 70.00 m x 8.00 m x 2.00 m

Armament:
2 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns in single mounts, 97.00lbs / 44.00kg shells, 1933 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 13.67lbs / 6.20kg shells, 1933 Model
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline amidships, 1 raised gun
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on side aft, all raised guns
8 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1930 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 211 lbs / 96 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,000 shp / 746 Kw = 15.11 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 73 tons

Complement:
52 - 68

Cost:
£0.251 million / $1.004 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 30 tons, 6.1 %
Armour: 116 tons, 23.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 15 tons, 2.9 %
- Armour Deck: 97 tons, 19.5 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 27 tons, 5.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 233 tons, 46.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 69 tons, 13.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 5.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,164 lbs / 528 Kg = 10.2 x 6.1 " / 155 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 10.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.83

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.443
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 27
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m (8.20 ft / 2.50 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Stern: 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Average freeboard: 9.43 ft / 2.88 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.9 %
Waterplane Area: 3,823 Square feet or 355 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 186 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.09
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Also building is an improved Indomita Class vessel to replace the sunken unit in the war. The main changes are listed at the bottom of the SS Report.
Exports are avialable if anyone is interested.

Baradero Indomita II Class, Argentina Torpedo Boat laid down 1937

Displacement:
788 t light; 822 t standard; 891 t normal; 947 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
290.71 ft / 285.43 ft x 31.50 ft x 7.71 ft (normal load)
88.61 m / 87.00 m x 9.60 m x 2.35 m

Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (2x2 guns), 30.42lbs / 13.80kg shells, 1933 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x6 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 134 lbs / 61 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
4 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
3rd: 0.47" / 12 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 22,000 shp / 16,412 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 2,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 125 tons

Complement:
81 - 106

Cost:
£0.548 million / $2.193 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 17 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 8 tons, 0.9 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 8 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 420 tons, 47.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 303 tons, 34.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 103 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 4.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
342 lbs / 155 Kg = 11.2 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.80

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Mid (40 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m (10.66 ft / 3.25 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (13 %): 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Stern: 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Average freeboard: 13.85 ft / 4.22 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.2 %
Waterplane Area: 5,957 Square feet or 553 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 64 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 137 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.39
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Indomita II features additional twin 37mm mount, two sextuple 20mm mounts, 200rpg for 100mm, HACS Mk 10, 600mm torpedoes, four DCT and two racks (40 DC total) and Langhiri-Florisson ASDIC

The Project 616 as used by Argentina, Atlantis and Colombia.



Please note the twin 37mm is offset to starboard and the funnel is offset to port to open the arcs of Q gun. All guns are Army weapons, not naval pieces.

Well that would definately be the oddest looking ship in the Atlantean fleet!

Hum! Veerrrry interesting! Cool bridge tower - I like it.

Bulgaria thinks it's cute, and wonders if they have the budget to buy one for the Danube. (Edit: answer seems to be "not right now, but maybe later".)

Peru will come soon

btw GREAT little ship

I like it, however, Latvia is going for a standardized 35 knot+ Destroyer force.