WesWorld

As noted in a post elsewhere, I have something planned for South America - forwhich reason I felt it prudent that the significant navies of South America be a bit more fleshed out. Given the generally higher number of navies in Wes-World, not to mention the much greater presence of battleship-possessing colonial powers in South America, I felt it was likely that the existing independent nations would have slightly larger navies, but they can't be too much larger, given that they're not part of the treaty. What I had in mind of the major units is listed below; information is taken from Jane's, except for two classes of ships built in Nordmark for Chile. Belt-armour is listed as "Main belt"/"Forward/Aft belt"/"Upper belt", incidentally.

Argentine fleet of early 1921:
Dreadnoughts Rivadavia and Moreno (1910-1915)
577.5ft x 95ft x 28ft, 30600tons standard, 22.5 knots, 11in/5in/8in belt, 12in turrets, 3in deck
12 - 30.5cm/12in 50cal
12 - 15.3cm/6in 50cal
15 - 4in 50cal
4 - 3pdr
6 - MG
2 - 21in TT subm

Pre-deadnought battleships Vientecinco de Mayo and Hercules (ex HMS Britannia and HMS Zealandia, 1902-1905)
439ft x 78ft x 26.75ft, 16350tons normal, 18 knots, 9in/6in/7in belt, 12in turrets, 2in deck
4 - 30.5cm/12in 45cal
4 - 23.5cm/9.2in 45cal
10 - 15.3cm/6in
12 - 12pdr
14 - 3pdr
2 - MG
5 - 18in TT subm

Armoured cruisers Presidente Sarmiento and Santísima Trinidad (1906-1909)
529ft x 75ft x 26ft, 15190tons normal, 24 knots, 6in/4in/3in belt, 8in turrets, 1.5in deck
4 - 25.4cm/10in 50cal
8 - 20.3cm/8in 50cal
20 - 12cm/4.7in 50cal
2 - 3pdr
2 - 1pdr AA
2 - MG
2 - 18in TT subm

Armoured cruisers General Belgrano, Garibaldi, and Pueyrredon (1895-189
328ft x 59.5ft x 23.2ft, 6840tons normal, 20 knots, 6in/3in/6in belt, 6in turrets, 1.5in deck
2 - 25.4cm/10in 50cal
14 - 15.3cm/6in 50cal
4 - 12pdr
4 - 6pdr
4 - 18in TT subm

Armoured cruiser General San Martin (1896-189
328ft x 59.5ft x 23.2ft, 6840tons normal, 20 knots, 6in/3in/6in belt, 6in turrets, 1.5in deck
4 - 20.3cm/8in 50cal
10 - 15.3cm/6in 50cal
6 - 12cm/4.7in 50cal
2 - 12pdr
6 - 6pdr
4 - 18in TT subm

Protected cruiser Buenos Aires (1894-1896)
403.5ft x 47.2ft x 19ft, 4780tons normal, 23 knots, 4.5in turrets, 5in deck
2 - 20.3cm/8in 45cal
4 - 15.3cm/6in 45cal
6 - 12cm/4.7in 45cal
12 - 3pdr
5 - 18in TT

Protected cruiser Nueve de Julio (1891-1893)
529ft x 75ft x 26ft, 15190tons normal, 24 knots, 6in/4in/3in belt, 8in turrets, 1.5in deck
4 - 15.3cm/10in 40cal
8 - 12cm/4.7in 40cal
10 - 3pdr
3 - 18in TT

Protected cruiser Almirante Brown (1879-1881, reconstructed 1907)
529ft x 75ft x 26ft, 15190tons normal, 24 knots, 6in/4in/3in belt, 8in turrets, 1.5in deck
6 - 15.3cm/6in 50cal
4 - 12cm/4.7in 50cal
8 - 3pdr
2 - 18in TT

Coast-defence armoured ships Independencia and Libertad (1889-1891)
240ft x 43ft x 13ft, 2300tons normal, 14 knots, 8in/-/- belt, 8in turrets, 1.5in deck
2 - 24cm/9.45in 35cal
4 - 12cm/4.7in 40cal
6 - 3pdr

Light scout cruisers Comodoro Py, Hipolito Bouchard, Segui, and Espora (1910-1913)
385ft x 41.5ft x 15.5ft, 3440tons normal, 25 knots, 1in deck
8 - 12cm/4.7in 40cal
4 - 3pdr
1 - MG
2 - 21in TT

_____________________________________________


Brazilian fleet of early 1921
Dreadnoughts Minas Geraes and Sao Paulo (1907-1910)
530ft x 83ft x 25ft, 21200tons normal, 21 knots, 9in/6in/7in belt, 12in turrets, 2in deck
12 - 30.5cm/12in 45cal
22 - 12cm/4.7in
8 - 3pdr
4 - MG

Pre-dreadnought battleships Riachuelo and Aquidabã (ex HMS Queen and HMS Prince of Wales, 1901-1904)
411ft x 75ft x 29ft, 15000tons normal, 18 knots, 9in/6in/7in belt, 12in turrets, 2in deck
4 - 30.5cm/12in 45cal
12 - 15.3cm/6in 45cal
16 - 12pdr
6 - 3pdr
2 - MG
4 - 18in TT subm

Coast defence armourclads Deodoro and Floriano (1897-1900)
267.5ft x 48ft x 13.25ft, 3162tons normal, 15 knots, 13.75in/4in/- belt, 8in turrets, 1.5in deck
2 - 24cm/9.45in 45cal
4 - 12cm/4.7in 50cal
4 - 6pdr
2 - MG

Protected cruiser Barroso (1895-1897)
330ft x 43.75ft x 16.8ft, 3450tons normal, 20 knots, 3in deck
6 - 15.3cm/6in 50cal
4 - 12cm/4.7in 50cal
10 - 6pdr
4 - 1pdr
4 - MG

Light scout cruisers Bahia and Rio Grande do Sul (1908-1910)
401.5ft x 39ft x 13.5ft, 3000tons normal, 25 knots, 1.5in deck
10 - 12cm/4.7in 50cal
6- 3pdr
2 - 18in TT subm

_____________________________________________


Chilean fleet of early 1921:
Dreadnoughts Almirante Latorre and Almirante Cochrane (Constructed in Nordmark, 1913-1916)
700ft x 90ft x 26ft, 30420tons normal, 24 knots, 13in/4in/4in belt, 13.4in turrets, 2.5in deck
10 - 34cm/13.4in 45cal
12 - 15cm/5.9in 50cal
10 - 11cm/4.3in 50cal
20 - 3pdr

Pre-dreadnought battleships Coronel Bolognesi and General Baquedano (ex HMS Swiftsure and HMS Triumph, ex Coronel Bolognesi and General Baquedano, 1902-1904)
458ft x 71ft x 24.7ft, 11800tons normal, 18 knots, 7in/3in/7in belt, 8in turrets, 1.5in deck
4 - 25.4cm/10in 45cal
14 - 19cm/7.5in 50cal
14 - 14pdr
1 - 12pdr
4 - 6pdr
4 - MG
2 - 18in TT subm

Coast defence armourclad Capitan Prat (1889-1891, reconstructed 1909)
328ft x 60.7ft x 22.8ft, 6902tons normal, 16 knots, 12in/3in/2in belt, 10in turrets, 3in deck
4 - 24cm/9.45in 35cal
8 - 12cm/4.7in 45cal
4 - 3pdr
10 - 1pdr
1 - MG
2 - 18in TT

Armoured cruiser General O'Higgins (1896-189
412ft x 62.75ft x 22ft, 8500tons normal, 21 knots, 7in/-/- belt, 7in turrets, 2in deck
4 - 20.3cm/8in 45cal
10 - 15.3cm/6in 40cal
10 - 12pdr
10 - 6pdr
4 - MG
2 - 18in TT subm

Armoured cruiser Esmeralda (1895-1897)
436ft x 53.2ft x 20.25ft, 7050tons normal, 21 knots, 6in/-/- belt, 4.5in turrets, 2in deck
2 - 20.3cm/8in 40cal
12 - 15.3cm/6in 40cal
12 - 12pdr
2 - 18in TT subm

Light scout cruisers Ministro Zentento, Presidente Errazuriz, and Blanco Encalado (Constructed in Nordmark, 1909-1910)
446ft x 49.5ft x 16ft, 5551tons normal, 27 knots, 1in deck
8 - 11cm/4.3in 45cal
4 - 6pdr
1 - MG
2 - 21in TT subm

Quite plausible, and I can't wait to see what you've got up your sleeve

Can we expect Springsharp data for these ships?
Or do we leave the ship data as it is ?

Walter

The information is taken mostly from Jane's all the World's Fighting Ships of World War 1, but the Chilean Almirante Latorre-class is simmed here, and the Chilean light scout cruisers are identical to the 1908 Falun-class light cruisers/flotilla-leaders described and simmed here; both these classes were built in Nordmark.

The fleets differ from the historical-fleets as follows:
- Argentina's fleet has been expanded with two pre-dreadnought battleships of the British King Edward VII-class, two large pre-dreadnought armoured cruisers (essentially Rurik-clones), adn four light scout cruisers, design based on an English class.
- Brazil's fleet has been expanded with two British pre-dreadnought battleships of the British Queen-class.
- Chile's fleet has had the historical British-built Almirante Latorre and Almirante Cochrane (impressed into British service as HMS Canada and HMS Eagle, respectively, the latter as a carrier) replaced by two ships constructed in Nordmark, both of which are handed over at the end of war, and has also been expanded with the two British 10in-gunned pre-dreadnought battleships HMS Swiftsure and HMS Triumph, which originally had been built for Chile, but were sold to Great Britain while still being built in 1903, and also three scout-cruisers of Nordmark design and manufacture.

Apart from the changes noted above, the fleets are at historical levels.

Bump

We will definately need to look at this list when the upcomeing action starts....give em hell Peng!!!

You do realise that when Britain set out for the Falklands war, it took a month and a half to get the forces into position, and the British had more modern ships (not needing to refult quite as much, and refueling faster) and a shorter distance to sail?

So what your saying is, like "the Matrix revolutions" we will be waiting quite a while for the action to start?
Never the less it will be quite interesting to be sure.
I think to some extent modern armys/navy's are much smaller and more complex than those in the interwar years so I think that explains some of the long preperation time, that and the fact that Britain IIRC didn't even see it coming when the Argies attacked the falklands and where caught off guard.

To clarify - the information I have seen, says it took one and a half month from they started sailing until they were in position.

Since we're discussing Chile, and the Chilean dreadnought was posted in the Nordmark Infrastructure thread...

(I edited the armament to show the metric equivilants, otherwise just cut-and-pasted from over there)

Almirante Latorre Battleship, laid down 1913

Length, 700 ft x Beam, 90.0 ft x Depth, 26.0 ft
30420 tons normal displacement (28677 tons standard)

Main battery: 10 x 13.40-inch / 340mm (5 x 2; 2 superfiring)
Secondary battery: 12 x 5.90-inch / 150mm
QF battery: 10 x 4.30-inch / 110mm
Light battery: 20 x 1.45-inch / 37mm

Weight of broadside: 13691 lbs

Main belt, 13.0 inches; bow and stern, 4.0 inches
Upper belt, 4.0 inches
Torpedo bulkhead, 1.0 inches
Armor deck, average 2.5 inches
C.T., 13.0 inches

Battery armor:
Main, 13.4" / secondary, 4.0"
QF, 2.0" / light guns, 0.5" shields

Maximum speed for 56155 shp = 24.00 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 4500 nm / 13 kts

Typical complement: 1152-1497


Estimated cost, $11.864 million (£2.966 million)

Remarks:

Good seaboat; rides out heavy weather easily.

Ship is roomy, with superior accommodation and working space.

Main deck secondary guns subject to being washed down
in a seaway.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 1711 tons = 6 pct
Armor, total ..................... 10779 tons = 35 pct

Belt 3863 tons = 13 pct
Torpedo bulkhead 438 tons = 1 pct
Deck 2183 tons = 7 pct
C.T. 274 tons = 1 pct
Armament 4022 tons = 13 pct

Machinery ........................ 2420 tons = 8 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 12017 tons = 40 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 3493 tons = 11 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 0 tons = 0 pct
-----
30420 tons = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 5.1 ft

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 26927 tons
Standard displacement: 28677 tons
Normal service: 30420 tons
Full load: 31693 tons

Loading submergence 1349 tons/foot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.10

Shellfire needed to sink: 33548 lbs = 27.9 x 13.4-inch shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 4.3
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 49 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.69

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.22

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.65
Sharpness coefficient: 0.41
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 6.86
'Natural speed' for length = 26.5 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 44 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 90 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 156 percent


Displacement factor: 105 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.01
(Structure weight per square
foot of hull surface: 183 lbs)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.00
(for 20.0 ft average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +1.1 ft)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

700.00 x 90.00 x 26.00; 20.00 -- Dimensions
0.65 -- Block coefficient
1913 -- Year laid down
24.00 / 4500 / 13.00; Turbine, coal fired -- Speed / radius / cruise
0 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
10 x 13.40; 5; 2 -- Main battery; turrets; superfiring
:
12 x 5.90; 0 -- Secondary battery; turrets
Main deck battery
:
10 x 4.30 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
:
20 x 1.45 -- Fourth (light) battery
0 -- No torpedo armament
++++++++++
13.00 / 4.00 / 4.00 / 1.00; 100 -- Belt armor; relative extent
2.50 / 13.00 -- Deck / CT
13.40 / 4.00 / 2.00 / 0.50 -- Battery armor


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++