WesWorld

Among the requirements identified by the Kriegsmarine staff is that of a light cruiser optimised for trade protection and suitable for service in distant waters. The design of the Light Cruiser "M" has been put forward to meet that need.

Light Cruiser "M", German Light Cruiser laid down 1942

Displacement: 7,295 t light; 7,615 t standard; 8,600 t normal; 9,388 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

597.12 ft / 583.99 ft x 55.28 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load) [182.00 m / 178.00 m x 16.85 m x 6.00 m]

Armament:

8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1940 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts – superfiring
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1940 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side ends, evenly spread
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1938 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1938 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,123 lbs / 509 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 220
8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 377.30 ft / 115.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 83,964 shp / 62,637 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 9,800nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,774 tons

Complement: 446 - 580

Cost: £4.329 million / $17.317 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 140 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 1,090 tons, 12.7 %
- Belts: 252 tons, 2.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 184 tons, 2.1 %
- Armour Deck: 636 tons, 7.4 %
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 2,193 tons, 25.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,772 tons, 43.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,305 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 12,910 lbs / 5,856 Kg = 125.4 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.38

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.474
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.56: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.07 ft / 8.25 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m (23.79 ft / 7.25 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m (22.97 ft / 7.00 m before break)
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 22.38 ft / 6.82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 179.1 %
Waterplane Area: 21,835 Square feet or 2,029 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 466 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.20
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weight

Reserved for radar and electronics suite: 75 tons
Reserved for future requirements: 25 tons

A very interesting design.

Why the high speed of 34 knots?
Have you tried a three triple 150mm version?

I agree, a very interesting design. Did the historical M-project influence this, as the two are similar?

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
A very interesting design.

Why the high speed of 34 knots?
Have you tried a three triple 150mm version?

I wanted to try something different than a 3x3 small cruiser - which I already have in the Ersatz Emden/Custozza design now under construction. I tried simming a twelve-gun 4x3 vessel on this hull and did not get a sufficiently stable result.

High speed? To hunt down anything it can kill and get away from anything it can't!

Quoted

Originally posted by snip
I agree, a very interesting design. Did the historical M-project influence this, as the two are similar?

I used the basic dimensions and hull layout of the OTL M-class as the starting point of the design; the armament outfit is a bit heavier.

A second light cruiser design has been proposed to meet Kriegsmarine requirements for a trade protection cruiser. A nominal 10,000 ton vessel the design features an extended radius of action.

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Light Cruiser "P", German Light Cruiser laid down 1942

Displacement: 9,916 t light; 10,381 t standard; 12,136 t normal; 13,539 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

603.68 ft / 590.55 ft x 67.26 ft x 20.18 ft (normal load) [184.00 m / 180.00 m x 20.50 m x 6.15 m]

Armament:

12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1938 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts – superfiring
12 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1940 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1938 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1938 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,690 lbs / 767 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 220
8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 360.89 ft / 110.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 3.54" / 90 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 107,846 shp / 80,453 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 14,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,158 tons

Complement: 577 - 751

Cost: £5.848 million / $23.392 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 211 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 1,910 tons, 15.7 %
- Belts: 556 tons, 4.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 282 tons, 2.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,031 tons, 8.5 %
- Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,817 tons, 23.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,827 tons, 39.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,220 tons, 18.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 18,543 lbs / 8,411 Kg = 180.1 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.530
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.78: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.92 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.07 ft / 8.25 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m (23.79 ft / 7.25 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Stern: 23.29 ft / 7.10 m
- Average freeboard: 23.64 ft / 7.21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 186.4 %
Waterplane Area: 28,311 Square feet or 2,630 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 533 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.80
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Miscellaneous weight

Reserved for radar and electronics suite: 75 tons
Reserved for future requirements: 75 tons

There is a faction within the Kriegsmarine staff which sees the heavy cruiser as preferable for service on overseas trade routes. The Cruiser "T" design study is based upon the hull form of the Cruiser "P" but features a 203mm main armament and 128mm dual purpose guns in place of the 105mm dual purpose guns of the light cruiser design. Speed and radius of action has been sacrificed to keep the design within the nominal 10,000 ton limit.

---------

Heavy Cruiser "T", German Heavy Cruiser laid down 1942

Displacement: 10,297 t light; 10,907 t standard; 12,136 t normal; 13,119 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

603.68 ft / 590.55 ft x 67.26 ft x 20.18 ft (normal load) [184.00 m / 180.00 m x 20.50 m x 6.15 m]

Armament:

9 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1942 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount – superfiring
12 - 5.04" / 128 mm guns (6x2 guns), 63.99lbs / 29.02kg shells, 1940 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1938 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1938 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3,115 lbs / 1,413 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 367.45 ft / 112.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 3.54" / 90 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 95,682 shp / 71,379 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,212 tons

Complement: 577 - 751

Cost: £6.602 million / $26.406 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 389 tons, 3.2 %
Armour: 1,941 tons, 16.0 %
- Belts: 565 tons, 4.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 305 tons, 2.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,031 tons, 8.5 %
- Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,500 tons, 20.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,317 tons, 43.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,838 tons, 15.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 17,917 lbs / 8,127 Kg = 70.0 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.530
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.78: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.92 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.07 ft / 8.25 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m (23.79 ft / 7.25 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Stern: 23.29 ft / 7.10 m
- Average freeboard: 23.64 ft / 7.21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 186.4 %
Waterplane Area: 28,311 Square feet or 2,630 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 587 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.93
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Miscellaneous weight

Reserved for radar and electronics suite: 75 tons
Reserved for future requirements: 75 tons

Speaking out of character, I'd appreciate your thoughts not only on the individual designs but the relative merits of one design alternative to another.

Thanks

If you're operating over towards the IE or SEA the visibility is pretty good and potential for long range engagements is high. Additionally, there are a number of large cruisers with 200mm+ weaponry. I think the 203/210mm calibre has to be the way to go if you're planning to do this sort of engagement. You should be able to hit up reasonably well up to the horizon whereas a 150mm gun will find significant problems in a similar engagement.

Really I think there are significant difficulties with such cruisers as above. The new baseline cruiser is 15000t+ with 254mm guns or more, and can easily outshoot and outfight smaller ships.

I feel what's needed is something large enough to be habitable and have long range. The fighting characteristics are almost secondary as you're likely be beaten whatever unless moving to a very large size.

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
Really I think there are significant difficulties with such cruisers as above. The new baseline cruiser is 15000t+ with 254mm guns or more, and can easily outshoot and outfight smaller ships.

I have solicited private opinions on the merits of the cruiser versus super-cruiser, and they have been running strongly against the super-cruiser as poor value for money. One of the reasons I put the three designs here for consideration is to get a wider feedback from the player base. Thank you.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
I have solicited private opinions on the merits of the cruiser versus super-cruiser, and they have been running strongly against the super-cruiser as poor value for money.

The super cruiser is definitely poor value for money, especially if you'd want to take into account manning and running costs. Might as well rock up in a proper battleship.

While I like Cruisers P and T themselves, I have several... I shan't call them concerns, but perhaps 'thoughts', related to the role of these vessels - though perhaps I'm hung up on the terminology of "Trade Protection Cruiser." I don't see either of these ships filling this role.

For "trade protection", I would ask several questions:
1. What is the nature of the trade I have to protect? Where does it move?
2. What potential enemies exist to disrupt this trade?
3. What is the acceptable cost-benefit ratio for protecting this trade?

I would think that, while Germany has an excellent merchant marine, the majority of German merchant vessels will not be as world-spanning as those of the British, French, or Nords. Is it economical for Germany to build a 10,000-ton "trade protection cruiser" to guard, say, the five or ten ships a year which tramp around to the SE Pacific Ocean?

Of the three cruisers presented as "Trade Protection Cruisers" in this thread, I see only the first as actually meeting those requirements. Cruiser P and Cruiser T are, in my view, "fleet cruisers" with the extra requirement of long range, and to get that on a somewhat inexpensive platform, their fighting power (particularly armour) is compromised. Versus a Treaty Cruiser, they'd depend entirely upon their upgraded electronics to provide a decisive edge in a fight, because armour, guns and speed are not otherwise superior. And Cruiser M is fully the match of a raiding CLAA, an older CL, or armed merchant cruiser...

Am I making sense, or just woolgathering?

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

I would think that, while Germany has an excellent merchant marine, the majority of German merchant vessels will not be as world-spanning as those of the British, French, or Nords. Is it economical for Germany to build a 10,000-ton "trade protection cruiser" to guard, say, the five or ten ships a year which tramp around to the SE Pacific Ocean?

Thank you for your excellent comments, and you raise points that I require my consideration. I can speak to the question of the extent of Germany's merchant activities, which frame the question of whether such cruisers are required at all.

Historically Germany had extensive liner services from Europe to the Far East (NDL), to India and the Persian Gulf (DDG Hansa), to Australia and the East Indies (HAPAG), to Africa (Woermann), to South America (HAPAG and others), to the Mediterranean (Deutsche Levant). My presumption is that these historical services exist. The non-liner operations under the German flag (ie tramp shipping) would be concentrated on carrying export cargos out and bringing back raw materials - so where-ever Germany is selling its good abroad it is likely that German flag shipping will be involved.

Germany is certainly not involved in the cross trades to the extent that the British or Nords are. If following the model of real world Nordish shipping would be heavily involved in tramp and bulk trading between third-party nations. But I would presume that a few German merchantmen would participate from time to time; given the higher level of international trade, such participation in cross trades might even be more extensive than historical.

IMHO both are faster than usual for a fleet cruiser.

I see the 15-16,000 ton CA as a waste of resources and I've looked at lower-end CAs, and came up with some 12,000 ton designs with triple 8in guns. I see the CA as dead, the larger CAs are too expensive in terms of build cost and running costs and manning. Smaller CAs are equal to CLs of eqaul size but does the extra gunpower really compensate for equal speed and armour? Myself I think not, I favour a 12-gun 6in cruiser, more volume of fire and more hits. It won't hit out to horizon range but backed up by carrier-aircraft than can cripple a CL or a light CA the combo is more than adeqaute. Once you've destroyed the directors or electronics and blasted the superstructure (and the quite thin CTs in these cruisers) then you've opened the defences enough to close-in and attack with torpedoes. Ripping the hull open to admit seawater is better than slugging it out hoping for a penetrating magazine hit or just cripping the engines.
IMO intermediate 170-190mm guns aren't worth the extra weight on a CL hull, nor are they powerful enough for a CA. (Yes I know Argentina uses them but it can't afford a proper CA and is tied in to Italian calibres still.)

Seakeeping in both isn't great, I'd want higher myself if tackling seas far from home. Armour is too weak on the 'T'. Afterall I'm looking at similar armour for my next Argentine CL...

Against a proper raider, perhaps a 8-10in Super CA, or even a light BC, all of these ships are no match. Commerce raiding CLs might be rarer, and certainly one would be a 12 gun CL rather than a 9 gun CL. If buying time for a convoy to scatter the longer-range 203mm might be better, and the chance to get one crippling shot or damaging the raider should be enough to force it to break off. Fear of unrepairable damage or serious damage will deter a raiding captain if they are far from home or allied territory. I think the 203mm makes more sense than 150mm if you intend to protect your shipping from large raiders.

If you want a dual-purpose fleet/ trade cruiser then 150mm makes more economic sense.

If you want a dual-purpose trade cruiser/ commerce raider of your own then 203mm makes sense. In either 203mm case you should have a bigger ship, perhaps another 1,000 tons for more armour.

"Against a proper raider, perhaps a 8-10in Super CA, or even a light BC, all of these ships are no match. Commerce raiding CLs might be rarer, and certainly one would be a 12 gun CL rather than a 9 gun CL."

Cruisers or capital ships will fare no better now in guerre d' corse than they did during the Great War. They cannot outrun aircraft or radio waves. Successful surface raiders will operate by stealth and deception.

Therefore, the real threat a trade protection cruiser needs to deal with is the AMC, and 8x6" is plenty for that.

Quoted

Originally posted by AdmKuznetsov

Cruisers or capital ships will fare no better now in guerre d' corse than they did during the Great War. They cannot outrun aircraft or radio waves. Successful surface raiders will operate by stealth and deception.

Therefore, the real threat a trade protection cruiser needs to deal with is the AMC, and 8x6" is plenty for that.

The experience of the Imperial German Navy in the Great War would confirm that assertion - that commerce raiding by large surface warships in the face of superior numbers and a lack of overseas bases is not a winning proposition. The results obtained by such auxiliary cruisers as Wolf and Mowe prove this.

I tend to agree with your assessment that the small cruiser M is more than adequate for trade protection. The question of whether the KM can afford specialized trade protection and fleet cruisers is a separate question. My own thoughts lean to the small cruiser, though an improved twelve-gun 6in cruiser has its attractions.

As paper is far less expensive than steel, the Kriegsmarine has also considered a modest revision of its current Novara class design - which while modestly slower carries a larger antiaircraft outfit and is, perhaps, better protected.

........

Alternate Light Cruiser M, German Light Cruiser laid down 1942

Displacement: 7,510 t light; 7,831 t standard; 8,676 t normal; 9,352 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

584.06 ft / 564.30 ft x 57.41 ft x 17.39 ft (normal load) [178.02 m / 172.00 m x 17.50 m x 5.30 m]

Armament:

9 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1940 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1938 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1938 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1938 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,238 lbs / 562 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 344.49 ft / 105.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.54" / 90 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 3.54" / 90 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, geared drive, 2 shafts, 79,202 shp / 59,085 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 8,300nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,521 tons

Complement: 449 - 584

Cost: £4.343 million / $17.372 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 155 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 1,650 tons, 19.0 %
- Belts: 507 tons, 5.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 263 tons, 3.0 %
- Armour Deck: 848 tons, 9.8 %
- Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,069 tons, 23.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,536 tons, 40.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,166 tons, 13.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):12,569 lbs / 5,701 Kg = 122.1 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has rise forward of midbreak and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.539
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.83: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.54 ft / 8.70 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.26 ft / 7.70 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.98 ft / 6.70 m (15.42 ft / 4.70 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Stern: 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Average freeboard: 20.64 ft / 6.29 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 177.6 %
Waterplane Area: 23,293 Square feet or 2,164 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 468 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

100 tons miscellaneous weight allocated thus:

40 tons for radar installations
30 tons for torpedo reloads and handling gear
30 tons for design growth and miscellaneous

Reviving a study done in 1937 for a dedicated antiaircraft cruiser, the Antiaircraft Cruiser G has been proposed by those elements of the KM staff favoring the aircraft carrier as the center of the future battle fleet; to counter massed air attacks this faction sees the need for a vessel larger than a destroyer to carry the batteries and gun directors required to engage multiple air targets.

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Antiaircraft Cruiser G, German Light Cruiser (Antiaircraft) laid down 1942

Displacement: 5,724 t light; 5,926 t standard; 6,611 t normal; 7,159 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

546.15 ft / 524.93 ft x 53.31 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load) [166.47 m / 160.00 m x 16.25 m x 6.00 m]

Armament:

12 - 5.04" / 128 mm guns (6x2 guns), 63.99lbs / 29.02kg shells, 1940 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1938 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, all amidships
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1938 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 811 lbs / 368 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.8" / 553.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 344.49 ft / 105.00 m 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 64,172 shp / 47,873 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,232 tons

Complement: 366 - 476

Cost: £3.310 million / $13.240 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 101 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 1,105 tons, 16.7 %
- Belts: 479 tons, 7.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 62 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 528 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 36 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,676 tons, 25.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,691 tons, 40.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 887 tons, 13.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9,061 lbs / 4,110 Kg = 141.6 x 5.0 " / 128 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.420
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.85: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.22 ft / 8.60 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Quarterdeck (13 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Stern: 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Average freeboard: 19.08 ft / 5.82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.7 %
Waterplane Area: 18,113 Square feet or 1,683 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 427 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.91
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Breakdown of Miscellaneous Weight

40 tons reserved for forward HA/LA DCT and associated radar
40 tons reserved for after HA/LA DCT and associated radar
20 tons reserved for gun directors for port secondary battery
20 tons reserved for gun directors for starboard secondary battery
30 tons reserved for future growth

Well, first off... I'd double the onboard 128mm ammunition straight away. Presuming that the ship's purpose is to help soak up air attacks, it'd be nice to have enough ammunition for more than ten to fifteen minutes firing (even if its off and on, those stocks will dwindle fast). Most cruisers of this era seem to have carried between 300 and 500 rounds per gun.

What's with the torps? New caliber? I thought you were using 21"...

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Well, first off... I'd double the onboard 128mm ammunition straight away. Presuming that the ship's purpose is to help soak up air attacks, it'd be nice to have enough ammunition for more than ten to fifteen minutes firing (even if its off and on, those stocks will dwindle fast). Most cruisers of this era seem to have carried between 300 and 500 rounds per gun.

What's with the torps? New caliber? I thought you were using 21"...

Good catch on the ammunition outfit - I forgot that. And no; no new torpedo - a typo. I will have to correct that and post a corrected Springsharp.

Sorry!


And here's a corrected SS - or more properly, revised, as the main battery is now in turrets. The enlarged magazines do impact radius but not, I think, fatally.

Antiaircraft Cruiser G, German Light Cruiser (Antiaircraft) laid down 1942 (Revised)

Displacement: 5,802 t light; 6,122 t standard; 6,611 t normal; 7,002 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

546.15 ft / 524.93 ft x 53.31 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load) [166.47 m / 160.00 m x 16.25 m x 6.00 m]

Armament:

12 - 5.04" / 128 mm guns (6x2 guns), 63.99lbs / 29.03kg shells, 1940 Model Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1938 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, all amidships
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1938 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 811 lbs / 368 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 337.93 ft / 103.00 m 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 64,172 shp / 47,873 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 5,600nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 881 tons

Complement: 366 - 476

Cost: £3.328 million / $13.310 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 101 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 1,152 tons, 17.4 %
- Belts: 472 tons, 7.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 117 tons, 1.8 %
- Armour Deck: 528 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 36 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,676 tons, 25.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,723 tons, 41.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 809 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 8,907 lbs / 4,040 Kg = 139.2 x 5.0 " / 128 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.420
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.22 ft / 8.60 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Quarterdeck (13 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Stern: 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Average freeboard: 19.08 ft / 5.82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.6 %
Waterplane Area: 18,113 Square feet or 1,683 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 432 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.89
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Breakdown of Miscellaneous Weight

40 tons reserved for forward HA/LA DCT and associated radar
40 tons reserved for after HA/LA DCT and associated radar
20 tons reserved for gun directors for port secondary battery
20 tons reserved for gun directors for starboard secondary battery
30 tons reserved for future growth