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1

Thursday, May 29th 2008, 7:11pm

Knyaz Alexander, BB

Two designs for a modern yet light BB for the Black Sea...

Quoted

Knyaz Alexander Battenberg, Design BB1940A1, Bulgarian Battleship laid down 1940

Displacement:
25,884 t light; 27,419 t standard; 28,598 t normal; 29,541 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
700.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
213.36 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m x 8.84 m

Armament:
6 - 16.50" / 419 mm guns (2x3 guns), 2,246.06lbs / 1,018.80kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 14,269 lbs / 6,472 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 455.00 ft / 138.68 m 11.51 ft / 3.51 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 455.00 ft / 138.68 m 26.62 ft / 8.11 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.12" / 130 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 40,840 shp / 30,467 Kw = 22.50 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,122 tons

Complement:
1,099 - 1,429

Cost:
£15.343 million / $61.370 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,784 tons, 6.2 %
Armour: 10,515 tons, 36.8 %
- Belts: 3,087 tons, 10.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 882 tons, 3.1 %
- Armament: 2,068 tons, 7.2 %
- Armour Deck: 4,200 tons, 14.7 %
- Conning Tower: 278 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,092 tons, 3.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,243 tons, 42.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,714 tons, 9.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
47,421 lbs / 21,510 Kg = 21.1 x 16.5 " / 419 mm shells or 8.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 16.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.83
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.536
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.46 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.00 ft / 8.84 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Stern: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 21.64 ft / 6.60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.4 %
Waterplane Area: 44,357 Square feet or 4,121 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 191 lbs/sq ft or 932 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.57
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Quoted

Knyaz Alexander Battenberg, Design BB1940B1, Bulgaria Battleship laid down 1940

Displacement:
26,107 t light; 27,419 t standard; 28,598 t normal; 29,541 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
700.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
213.36 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m x 8.84 m

Armament:
6 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,687.50lbs / 765.44kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 10,918 lbs / 4,952 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 455.00 ft / 138.68 m 11.51 ft / 3.51 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 455.00 ft / 138.68 m 26.62 ft / 8.11 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.12" / 130 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 107,390 shp / 80,113 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,122 tons

Complement:
1,099 - 1,429

Cost:
£14.773 million / $59.091 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,365 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 10,308 tons, 36.0 %
- Belts: 3,087 tons, 10.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 882 tons, 3.1 %
- Armament: 1,860 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 4,200 tons, 14.7 %
- Conning Tower: 278 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,871 tons, 10.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,313 tons, 39.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,491 tons, 8.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
41,078 lbs / 18,633 Kg = 24.3 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 6.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.536
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.46 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.00 ft / 8.84 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Stern: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 21.64 ft / 6.60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.4 %
Waterplane Area: 44,357 Square feet or 4,121 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 176 lbs/sq ft or 861 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.46
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent


Summary:
BB1940A1 has 16.5" guns and a speed of 22.5 knots. BB1940B1 has 15" guns and a speed of 29 knots. Both ships otherwise have the same specifications.

2

Thursday, May 29th 2008, 8:39pm

I thought it looked familiar.....

Tyr (Build), Denmark BBL laid down 1927

Displacement:
24,975 t light; 26,486 t standard; 28,494 t normal; 30,101 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
725.59 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
221.16 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m x 8.84 m

Armament:
6 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,687.50lbs / 765.44kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (4x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
24 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (10 mounts), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 11,071 lbs / 5,022 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 448.49 ft / 136.70 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
0.98" / 25 mm 448.49 ft / 136.70 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
5th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 107,060 shp / 79,867 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 13,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,615 tons

Complement:
1,096 - 1,425

Cost:
£9.126 million / $36.504 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,384 tons, 4.9 %
Armour: 9,334 tons, 32.8 %
- Belts: 3,044 tons, 10.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 429 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 1,715 tons, 6.0 %
- Armour Deck: 3,870 tons, 13.6 %
- Conning Tower: 277 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 3,379 tons, 11.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,727 tons, 37.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,519 tons, 12.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,131 lbs / 15,028 Kg = 19.6 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.04
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 17.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.534
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.46 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.25 ft / 5.56 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.25 ft / 5.26 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.25 ft / 4.95 m
- Stern: 16.25 ft / 4.95 m
- Average freeboard: 17.98 ft / 5.48 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.4 %
Waterplane Area: 44,277 Square feet or 4,113 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 848 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.18
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Aircraft = 3 (type to be decided)

has Tyr on stability though

3

Thursday, May 29th 2008, 8:43pm

I have to agree. Those two look a lot like each other...

4

Thursday, May 29th 2008, 9:02pm

Considering the Tyr was the ship which got me thinking along these lines, the similarity perhaps isn't surprising. But looking back in comparison... it's a much closer knockoff than I actually intended it to be. *Wince.* My apologies if I got her too close to the original inspiration...

Still, the Tyr didn't match what I wanted (too little armor on the barbettes, too little TDS, stability way too low for my preferences), so I wanted to design my own. I highly doubt I'll get around to building anything this big, though.

5

Thursday, May 29th 2008, 9:15pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Considering the Tyr was the ship which got me thinking along these lines, the similarity perhaps isn't surprising. But looking back in comparison... it's a much closer knockoff than I actually intended it to be. *Wince.* My apologies if I got her too close to the original inspiration...

Still, the Tyr didn't match what I wanted (too little armor on the barbettes, too little TDS, stability way too low for my preferences), so I wanted to design my own. I highly doubt I'll get around to building anything this big, though.


Imitation is a form of flatery, or so they say, (And no, I don't know who "they" are!!)

You have got me thinking now about a "Revised" Tyr......

6

Thursday, May 29th 2008, 9:31pm

If a revised Tyr is made, I might have some interest in one for Bulgaria, after 1941 or so. At the moment my plans are tied down with destroyers, minesweepers, and other necessary support ships, so battleship plans are rather on hold. (Bulgaria's most ambitious ideas revolve around buying a copy of the Greek Megas Alexandros... )

7

Friday, May 30th 2008, 12:59am

How about this then????

Tyr II, Denmark BBL laid down 1940

Displacement:
25,970 t light; 27,475 t standard; 29,000 t normal; 30,220 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
726.17 ft / 700.00 ft x 96.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
221.34 m / 213.36 m x 29.26 m x 8.84 m

Armament:
6 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,687.50lbs / 765.44kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (10 mounts), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 10,918 lbs / 4,952 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.12" / 130 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 93,185 shp / 69,516 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,746 tons

Complement:
1,110 - 1,444

Cost:
£14.425 million / $57.699 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,365 tons, 4.7 %
Armour: 10,143 tons, 35.0 %
- Belts: 2,757 tons, 9.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 753 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 1,858 tons, 6.4 %
- Armour Deck: 4,496 tons, 15.5 %
- Conning Tower: 280 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,492 tons, 8.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,720 tons, 40.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,030 tons, 10.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
45,585 lbs / 20,677 Kg = 27.0 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 7.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 17.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.521
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.29 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.92 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 21.53 ft / 6.56 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 170.5 %
Waterplane Area: 47,484 Square feet or 4,411 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 178 lbs/sq ft or 871 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.51
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Aircraft = 3 (type to be decided)

8

Friday, May 30th 2008, 1:15am

Looks quite respectable for a ship of her size. I'll definitely be keeping her in mind once I get my destroyers in a nice neat row...