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1

Monday, July 30th 2012, 11:52pm

Chilean Navy - Future Project Ideas

Somewhere in the period between 1943 and 1944, the Chilean naval budget will hit a spot where I can start one or two major projects. I've got several ideas in mind.

I see this as one of the last plausible points where Chile would want to lay down a new battleship. I already chickened out on this once, building the 9x12" Blanco Encaladas rather than the Canadian Vickers 12x15" behemoth. I'm not likely to actually build a capital ship, but if I did, it'd probably look very akin to the OTL Vanguard - something in the 29-31 knot range with 8x15". If I did something like this, it would replace in one fell swoop all of Chile's current capital ships, including the relatively recently-acquired Capitan Prat (8x15").

The other option is to persist in building my (rather expensive) cruisers. I don't like single-ship classes, and thus the poor Magellanes really needs a sister ship. Since it's already a pretty good design, IMHO, I don't need to actually do any design work.

I've also got the possibility of building a sistership to Constitucion.

Then, of course, I could spend my money on replacement carriers (Mapuche's getting old and cramped), new submarines, or some such.

2

Monday, July 30th 2012, 11:54pm

A super-cheap battleship. Not sure how I feel about it, aside from the lovely price...

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Sudamerika, Chilean Battleship laid down 1943[/SIZE]

Displacement:
30,006 t light; 31,578 t standard; 34,321 t normal; 36,514 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
734.41 ft / 721.78 ft x 101.71 ft x 28.71 ft (normal load)
223.85 m / 220.00 m x 31.00 m x 8.75 m

Armament:
6 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x2 guns), 2,039.28lbs / 925.00kg shells, 1943 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1943 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (4x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1943 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1943 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1943 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13,098 lbs / 5,941 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.2" / 360 mm 398.00 ft / 121.31 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 398.00 ft / 121.31 m 25.98 ft / 7.92 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 11.8" / 300 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 3.15" / 80 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
3rd: 3.15" / 80 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.51" / 140 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 105,172 shp / 78,459 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,936 tons

Complement:
1,260 - 1,639

Cost:
£17.025 million / $68.099 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,393 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 12,160 tons, 35.4 %
- Belts: 2,982 tons, 8.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 753 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 2,567 tons, 7.5 %
- Armour Deck: 5,544 tons, 16.2 %
- Conning Tower: 314 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,716 tons, 7.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,361 tons, 38.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,315 tons, 12.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 375 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
58,108 lbs / 26,357 Kg = 34.4 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 10.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.570
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.10 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.28 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.07 ft / 8.25 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 20.58 ft / 6.27 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.5 %
Waterplane Area: 54,372 Square feet or 5,051 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 907 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.28
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

3

Monday, July 30th 2012, 11:54pm

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Almirante Latorre, Chilean Heavy Cruiser laid down 1943[/SIZE]

Displacement:
19,000 t light; 19,954 t standard; 22,610 t normal; 24,735 t full load

Dimensions:[/B] Length overall / water x beam x draught
756.19 ft / 721.78 ft x 68.90 ft (Bulges 75.46 ft) x 26.74 ft (normal load)
230.49 m / 220.00 m x 21.00 m (Bulges 23.00 m) x 8.15 m

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (3x3 guns), 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 1943 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1943 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1943 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1943 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,822 lbs / 2,641 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 508.53 ft / 155.00 m 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.18" / 30 mm 508.53 ft / 155.00 m 26.00 ft / 7.92 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.27" / 210 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 7.09" / 180 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 130,652 shp / 97,467 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,781 tons

Complement:
921 - 1,198

Cost:
£11.130 million / $44.520 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 670 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 5,748 tons, 25.4 %
- Belts: 1,890 tons, 8.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 578 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 1,183 tons, 5.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,961 tons, 8.7 %
- Conning Tower: 136 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 3,374 tons, 14.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,783 tons, 38.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,610 tons, 16.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 425 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,540 lbs / 15,214 Kg = 67.1 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.79
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.543
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 50.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.87 ft / 8.80 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 23.95 ft / 7.30 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 23.95 ft / 7.30 m
- Stern: 23.95 ft / 7.30 m
- Average freeboard: 25.07 ft / 7.64 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.2 %
Waterplane Area: 35,903 Square feet or 3,336 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 697 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

4

Monday, July 30th 2012, 11:59pm

The expensive one!

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Vanguardia, Chilean Battleship laid down 1943[/SIZE]

Displacement:
40,356 t light; 42,487 t standard; 47,397 t normal; 51,326 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
818.55 ft / 803.81 ft x 106.63 ft x 33.96 ft (normal load)
249.49 m / 245.00 m x 32.50 m x 10.35 m

Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3 mounts), 2,039.28lbs / 925.00kg shells, 1943 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1943 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (8 mounts), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1943 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1943 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1943 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17,471 lbs / 7,925 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 82 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.56" / 65 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 34.45 ft / 10.50 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.5" / 420 mm 11.8" / 300 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
5th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.51" / 140 mm, Conning tower: 16.54" / 420 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140,514 shp / 104,823 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,839 tons

Complement:
1,605 - 2,087

Cost:
£22.791 million / $91.164 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,859 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 16,022 tons, 33.8 %
- Belts: 3,748 tons, 7.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,391 tons, 2.9 %
- Armament: 3,944 tons, 8.3 %
- Armour Deck: 6,473 tons, 13.7 %
- Conning Tower: 467 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 3,629 tons, 7.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,346 tons, 38.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,041 tons, 14.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
82,963 lbs / 37,631 Kg = 49.2 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 14.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.570
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.54 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.50 ft / 9.60 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Stern: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Average freeboard: 24.72 ft / 7.54 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 178.2 %
Waterplane Area: 63,480 Square feet or 5,897 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 207 lbs/sq ft or 1,011 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.43
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

5

Tuesday, July 31st 2012, 12:04am

I've also considered using the Canadian 7.5" gun for a heavy cruiser. I must admit that I've always had a liking for 4x3 layout designs, and this ship has a pretty good price. My one beef is that I think automatic guns are too over-emphasized in Wesworld, and so I'd probably just dumb them down to regular breech-loading guns in turrets. Still, posted for consideration.

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Cerro Fitz Roy, Chilean Heavy Cruiser laid down 1942[/SIZE]

Displacement:
14,500 t light; 15,261 t standard; 17,577 t normal; 19,429 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
742.11 ft / 721.78 ft x 75.46 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
226.20 m / 220.00 m x 23.00 m x 7.00 m

Armament:
12 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (4x3 guns), 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 1942 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns (2x2 guns), 40.61lbs / 18.42kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns (4x2 guns), 40.61lbs / 18.42kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,540 lbs / 1,606 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
12 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 9.97 ft / 3.04 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 5.12" / 130 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm

- Armour deck: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 109,636 shp / 81,789 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,168 tons

Complement:
763 - 992

Cost:
£8.172 million / $32.686 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 447 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 3,793 tons, 21.6 %
- Belts: 1,154 tons, 6.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 730 tons, 4.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,909 tons, 10.9 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,864 tons, 16.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,120 tons, 40.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,077 tons, 17.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 275 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,420 lbs / 12,437 Kg = 130.0 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.492
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.10 ft / 6.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.5 %
Waterplane Area: 37,452 Square feet or 3,479 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 634 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

6

Tuesday, July 31st 2012, 2:02am

Brock you may want to check the number of main gun mounts for the Vanguardia.

7

Tuesday, July 31st 2012, 2:24am

Of the two cruiser designs, I start to wonder if the Almirante Latorre is worth the tonnage to construct her. Certainly she is a powerful vessel - but maybe more powerful than what is needed. As a commerce raider she could overwhelm anything short of a battlecruiser and she would be a good antiaircraft and surface escort for a carrier group.

That said, I think that the Cerro Fitz Roy is better value for money in the carrier or surface group role. She is also a good commerce raider, and could probably overwhelm a 6in-gun cruiser in a straight up fight one-on-one.

Given your probable opposition, the savings from a pair of Cerro Fitz Roys versus a pair of Latorres translates to a division of destroyers or half a flotilla of submarines. They might be more valuable than the psychological impact of the Latorre design.

8

Tuesday, July 31st 2012, 2:41am

At least regarding the 9x10" cruiser, I'd actually not intended to build two - just one. It would make a pair of ships with Constitucion. I'd probably match it off by building the second Magellanes class cruiser.

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
Brock you may want to check the number of main gun mounts for the Vanguardia.

Oops!

Yeah, it should be 4x2 layout. I'll fix it later.