WesWorld

I am undecided what type of destroyers I should build in 1932. I need something more for escorting than fleet actions but that can fight off other destroyers. Since the main BB fleet is only capable of 23kts and most other ships in the mid 20kts range speed is not a problem but newer ships with speed of 30kts+ also need to be considered. The Corrientes Class will replace the old DD and the six Mendoza will form the core DD strike force to attack enemy ships and screen the fast crusiers. I've come up with three designs. I want your opinions as which is the best choice for an all round escort of merchants and naval ships yet still be able to serve in the battleline to cover losses. They will be for defence rather than attack. I've decided to scrap all but a four of my old 950ton ships, they are too old to refit.
The choices are;
a) A large general purpose design to be built in seperate A/S and Anti-ship versions
b) A fast 100mm gun armed destroyer like the Matsu Class
c) A mini Mendoza

Here are the Springsharps;

This design is in two types, one with two 100mm twin guns and masses of DC and even an A/S mortar should one appear for export before 1937. Here is the heavy 130mm version. Emphasis is one seakeeping and firepower than speed. All guns well above waterline os can be used in heavy weather.
Granville, Guerrico, Argentina Destroyer laid down 1932

Displacement:
1,030 t light; 1,083 t standard; 1,239 t normal; 1,364 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
332.79 ft / 327.43 ft x 29.53 ft x 10.17 ft (normal load)
101.43 m / 99.80 m x 9.00 m x 3.10 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (3 mounts), 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 278 lbs / 126 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180
4 - 23.6" / 599.44 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 17,000 shp / 12,682 Kw = 28.16 kts
Range 4,250nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 281 tons

Complement:
103 - 135

Cost:
£0.599 million / $2.395 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 35 tons, 2.8 %
Armour: 27 tons, 2.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 20 tons, 1.6 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 472 tons, 38.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 465 tons, 37.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 209 tons, 16.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
583 lbs / 265 Kg = 8.7 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.83
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.73

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.441
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.09 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 29
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Stern: 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 15.28 ft / 4.66 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 148.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.6 %
Waterplane Area: 6,123 Square feet or 569 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 161 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.93
- Overall: 0.59
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

This design is armed with 100mm guns as 130mm guns overstressed the hull and two singles were not enough. One 100mm is in a HA mount. Speed over gun power but still a good ship
Escort Design 1, Argentina Escort Destroyer laid down 1932

Displacement:
999 t light; 1,043 t standard; 1,249 t normal; 1,414 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
335.26 ft / 328.00 ft x 27.72 ft x 10.10 ft (normal load)
102.19 m / 99.97 m x 8.45 m x 3.08 m

Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (2x2 guns), 28.66lbs / 13.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 28.66lbs / 13.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 151 lbs / 69 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
4 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 21,000 shp / 15,666 Kw = 30.61 kts
Range 6,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 371 tons

Complement:
104 - 136

Cost:
£0.588 million / $2.351 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 20 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 13 tons, 1.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 8 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 553 tons, 44.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 373 tons, 29.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 250 tons, 20.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 3.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
521 lbs / 236 Kg = 17.1 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.48
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 9.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.45

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.476
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.83 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.95 ft / 6.08 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.23 ft / 5.86 m
- Mid (38 %): 19.23 ft / 5.86 m (11.48 ft / 3.50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Stern: 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 14.48 ft / 4.41 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 159.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.8 %
Waterplane Area: 6,163 Square feet or 573 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.51
- Longitudinal: 2.53
- Overall: 0.60
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

A smaller and thinner Mendoza with only two twin 130mm, excellent speed and firepower and can serve with the battlefleet. Uses same machinery etc. Has poorest seakeeping.
Mini Mendoza Class, Argentina Destroyer laid down 1931

Displacement:
1,696 t light; 1,784 t standard; 1,938 t normal; 2,061 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
369.19 ft / 361.55 ft x 32.81 ft x 13.78 ft (normal load)
112.53 m / 110.20 m x 10.00 m x 4.20 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (3 mounts), 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 290 lbs / 131 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 40,800 shp / 30,437 Kw = 34.31 kts
Range 3,300nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 277 tons

Complement:
145 - 189

Cost:
£0.984 million / $3.937 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 34 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 30 tons, 1.6 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 21 tons, 1.1 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 980 tons, 50.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 627 tons, 32.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 242 tons, 12.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
537 lbs / 244 Kg = 8.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.415
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.02 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.77 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
- Mid (52 %): 20.34 ft / 6.20 m (10.50 ft / 3.20 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Stern: 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 15.67 ft / 4.78 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 179.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.5 %
Waterplane Area: 7,650 Square feet or 711 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 70 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 184 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.44
- Overall: 0.59
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Please note this not a design competition and foreign designs are not wanted as the Navy feels the need to build these vessels at home to give our yards more experience. Which is the best choice.

I suppose the first question is how fast are the ships you're looking to escort, and the second is what are you expecting to escort them against?

Design B. Similar to Hunt class, maybe cut the speed back to 28knts. If a larger punch against ships is needed mount 3x130mm singles rather than the 100mm HA mounts.

Need about 20tons for asdic and depth charge racks & throwers. You mentioned about the 8 charge thrower on Vespa in one of our many pms, that weighs a fair bit more and space is a concern.

You should also allow some misc weight for torpedoes and light AA;

The 4x600mm TT will weigh about 12t
Duple 37mm may weight anywhere between 1t and 5t, the 1t being barebones and the 5t being a watercooled stabilised mounting.

For seakeeping I wouldn't pay that much attention to SS, you want a raised forecastle at 5m+ and have the mountings as far above the waterline as possible, e.g. rear raised mounting.

For fleet work, I would argue numbers of true DD's are more important than individual firepower. I would point to Warburton-Lee's success at first Narvik or the old US DD's at Balikpapan as examples. The historic KM produced some very powerful DD designs, but still sent capital ships out without them in escort. The RN, conversly, did quite well with 4" armed DD's, having them on hand on numerous occassions especially for fleet operations. The historic Shigure could even be an example, frequently sailing with more powerful examples of her type and retuning home while her 'betters' were burning and sinking.

All that said, I like design C because it has the speed for fleet work or independent operations, which a small navy like Argentian might be pressing its destroyers to do. Any significant force (read: one containing cruisers and/or a large number of destroyers) will have too easy a time dealing with slower destroyers at gun range instead of torpedo range. I'd like to see a couple more knots and a couple more torpedoes, but you can't have everything and she's your DD anyway.

"A" is very remniscent of the Indian Kudligi escort, but with rival navies very close by (indeed, sharing a boarder) I'm not sure an escort DD really helps Argentina. And in India's case, their ships are using CDS tonnage, and not true fleet destoryer tonnage. "B" fits well into what I said above, but as with "A", I think the low speed (for a DD) is a liability.

My thoughts,

Big Rich

Unfortunately, I have to say I think all three designs have significant flaws that argue against them:

A) is too slow for the job. 28 knots is certainly sufficient for station-keeping on your battleships, but attacking destroyers will be coming in at ~33-35 knots. The faster your ships are, the further from your battleships you can meet them - so less chance of the enemy getting a good shot at one with their torpedos. Similarly, if the enemy manages to get past your ships, they'll never catch up.

B) has better speed but the hull form isn't good. Too long and slender, and the block co-efficient too high. In the seas of the South Atlantic, this will be a hazard.

C) is well armed and fast, but perhaps too large for you to produce in significant numbers. If you aim for a speed of 34 knots even, eliminate the conning tower armor, and half the gun armor, maybe you can shave a 100 t off of her. Have a look at India's Bhubaneshwar class - about 200 t smaller, but nearly as capable.

I think Rocky makes a good assessment in reguards to all three designs.

A compromise between designs "A" and "C" would be ideal in my opinion. As it stands your C design is similar in size to the Atlantean H class type A destroyers but with 2 fewer 5.1" guns. Somthing in the 1,200 ton range would seem more accurate for the armament specified.

For speed even 33 knots would be respectable and its a decent margin of speed over your older units.

Thanks for the advice guys, Rocky's criticisms have proved very useful.
The 8 charge thrower would be mounted on the Type A in the ASW version which has stacks of misc weight. But this design is for the future.
I've improved a the Type C and rejected the Type A and Type B. B might still be built later on. Any thoughts

Type C Mini Mendoza Class, Argentina Destroyer laid down 1931

Displacement:
1,519 t light; 1,604 t standard; 1,779 t normal; 1,919 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
369.19 ft / 361.55 ft x 32.81 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)
112.53 m / 110.20 m x 10.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (3 mounts), 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 290 lbs / 131 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 32,926 shp / 24,563 Kw = 33.09 kts
Range 4,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 314 tons

Complement:
136 - 178

Cost:
£0.867 million / $3.467 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 34 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 16 tons, 0.9 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 9 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 832 tons, 46.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 587 tons, 33.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 260 tons, 14.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 2.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
589 lbs / 267 Kg = 8.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 11.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.02 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.82 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
- Mid (52 %): 20.34 ft / 6.20 m (10.50 ft / 3.20 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Stern: 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 15.67 ft / 4.78 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.1 %
Waterplane Area: 7,578 Square feet or 704 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 77 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 175 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.48
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Much better, but if you would accept a seakeeping in the 1 - 1.05 range, you could get a fair bit more out of her.

An issue is the length:beam ratio, while it's legal, it's not the best for a ship that's operating in rough waters like the South Atlantic and Cape Horn. There's the risk of the ship snapping in half.....

I agree with Rocky and Hrolf, she has incredible seakeeping and stability for a DD and her L:B ratio is abit worrysome.

Perhaps increasing her beam to 34/35 feet and reducing her draft to 12/12.5 will take care of those issues and still allow for more goodies.

I'd also add a 5th 5.12" gun aft to compete with other DD's in her weight class.

Looks ok. I'd go with twin 130mm guns however, it just gives you more deck space for the torpedoes, depth charges and AAA.

The shell weight of the Italian 130mm gun you're using is the average. It comes with 28kg HE/MTF and 36kg SAP.

The conning tower armour will probably be quite useful, but most vessel like this use an open bridge.

Quoted

The conning tower armour will probably be quite useful, but most vessel like this use an open bridge.

Most, but not all: older Nordish DDs and current German DDs have armored conning towers.

Here is yet another design. Totally different and easier to build. Not happy about the 100mm but I doubt 130mm will fit without space problems. I have plans for a new 115mm gun that should solve these problems. Now I will only build a couple of these before a new proper fleet destroyer more useful than Mendoza.

Escort Destroyer 3, Argentina Escort Destroyer laid down 1932

Displacement:
834 t light; 874 t standard; 978 t normal; 1,061 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
285.56 ft / 278.87 ft x 31.17 ft x 9.84 ft (normal load)
87.04 m / 85.00 m x 9.50 m x 3.00 m

Armament:
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (3x2 guns), 28.66lbs / 13.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 179 lbs / 81 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,675 shp / 19,154 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 3,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 187 tons

Complement:
86 - 113

Cost:
£0.525 million / $2.098 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 24 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 10 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 8 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 473 tons, 48.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 287 tons, 29.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 144 tons, 14.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
269 lbs / 122 Kg = 8.8 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.63

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.50 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 80
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Forecastle (16 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Mid (32 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 12.07 ft / 3.68 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 179.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 72.6 %
Waterplane Area: 5,553 Square feet or 516 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 56 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 146 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.51
- Longitudinal: 1.72
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Here is a four gun version with slightly better seakeeping but poor firepower.
Escort Destroyer 3, Argentina Escort Destroyer laid down 1932

Displacement:
840 t light; 874 t standard; 978 t normal; 1,061 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
285.56 ft / 278.87 ft x 31.17 ft x 9.84 ft (normal load)
87.04 m / 85.00 m x 9.50 m x 3.00 m

Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (2x2 guns), 28.66lbs / 13.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 122 lbs / 55 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,675 shp / 19,154 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 3,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 187 tons

Complement:
86 - 113

Cost:
£0.506 million / $2.022 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 16 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 7 tons, 0.8 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 6 tons, 0.6 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 487 tons, 49.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 289 tons, 29.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 137 tons, 14.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
296 lbs / 134 Kg = 9.7 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.71

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.50 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Forecastle (16 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Mid (32 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m (10.50 ft / 3.20 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (12 %): 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Stern: 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 12.68 ft / 3.87 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.1 %
Waterplane Area: 5,553 Square feet or 516 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 58 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 142 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.07
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

The size of historical german Raubtier-class vessels but with twice their armament......

Probably a good design for the Argentineans...

barring penalties that is ...

I've changed my mind somewhat this week. I've decided to refit the two French 950ton destroyers and build six of these. I've taken my 600ton Colonial Torpedo Boat design (posted on warship discussion 3.0) added a transom and enlarged it a bit. I like it, any comments?



Indomita Class, Argentina Torpedo Boat laid down 1932

Displacement:
788 t light; 819 t standard; 891 t normal; 949 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
290.71 ft / 285.43 ft x 31.50 ft x 7.71 ft (normal load)
88.61 m / 87.00 m x 9.60 m x 2.35 m

Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (2x2 guns), 28.66lbs / 13.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 122 lbs / 55 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 22,000 shp / 16,412 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 2,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 130 tons

Complement:
81 - 106

Cost:
£0.461 million / $1.845 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 16 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 5 tons, 0.6 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 5 tons, 0.6 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 431 tons, 48.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 301 tons, 33.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 103 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 3.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
335 lbs / 152 Kg = 11.0 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.80

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Mid (40 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m (10.66 ft / 3.25 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (13 %): 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Stern: 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Average freeboard: 13.85 ft / 4.22 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.9 %
Waterplane Area: 5,957 Square feet or 553 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 136 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.38
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Looks good, but I'd raise the aft 100mm mount to get better seakeeping.