WesWorld

Here's a design that Filipino naval designers are kicking around for 1937.

Care to take a stab as to her stats?




(Thanks to BigRich for the original (since heavily modified ^_^) design, and for the drawing).

ummm....17 x 12 inch guns?

But for the main armament turret layout I'd suggest -

A-4; B-3s; X-3; Y-3s; Z-4

Saves weight and gets another gun bearing forward.

Waterline length is 721 feet.



BTW, those ain't 12" guns.

I was hoping they where....

Sorry to be a party pooper but if small navy's like Turkey and Greece ain't building (or even thinking about ships like this) what are the chances of the Philipines doing the same?

If those ain't 12" guns I susspect the real "big boys" would be inclined to design a ship that would make these like like toy boats.

I susspect Hooman is having a heart attack right about now in reguards to the realism aspect.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
I susspect Hooman is having a heart attack right about now in reguards to the realism aspect.

Aaargh! *glurg*

*thumb*





*silence*


Seriously, without any stats one can hardly discuss that design. If those aren´t 12" guns then they´ll probably be 11 inchers....

Swamphen, what´s the rational behind having two triples forward but two quads amidship?

Where do you plan to place the ships machinery? As it is there isn´t that much space - or will the ship have a top speed of a mere 12kn?

You can gain more hull space by moving B turret forward as well as the ships superstructure. Then move C turret aft and turn it around. This way you will generate some space behind the bridge structure and below C turret´s rifles. Also move E turret further forward - it seems too close to the stern.

Grouping your turrets together will save you much weight and space albeit at the costs of making it easier for a single hit to disable more than one turret.

Given the number of light AA guns already placed on most mid-20s designs I wonder if your design isn´t lacking AAA. Further adressing hindsight and all the CVs afloat around the globe in WesWorld I also wonder why there aren´t DP-secondaries.

Regards,

HoOmAN

It'll be an interesting day in Hyderabad when the Filipino naval attache comes to shop that design around to India.

I'd be inclined to guess that the design is using either Indian 35 cm guns or Japanese 36 cm guns, more likely the latter. Speed in the low twenties, protection in the 35 cm belt, 12 cm deck range.

Hooman's right, though - if you want much more than a "what the hell is that?" reaction, we'll need stats...

Would you believe 27 knots, 380mm belt, 130mm deck...and 17 x 350mm?

I was wondering about machinery space, that was one reason I posted it. As I mentioned, this was originally a design by BigRich in response to one of my Warships1 challenges; I liked it, so I tweaked it some, and he was kind enough to draw it up.

The turret arrangement was explained as allowing the quads' barbettes to be in the deepest/widest parts of the ship, while the triples would be in the narrower bits.

As for the lack of DP secondaries...the Filipinos' naval thinking trends torwards having dedicated a/s and a/a batteries, thus allowing each to concentrate on their respective "theatres" without dilution of effort covering the other. However, the 155mm guns on this design are, in fact, DP a la Richelieu.

As for lack of AA...would 63 x 25mm be better? ^_^


I've actually done some "feasibility studies", and even considering refits and rebuilds, the Philippines can, in fact, afford one of these, and a second one - to a different design - in 1943.

However, I'm now leaning torwards canning this one, and moving the BB43 up to 1937. The '43 is a somewhat more 'reasonable' design, and also reducing the number of capital units by one would increase the "manpower realism" factor.


"And now, the rest of the story."
-------

PRS Davao, Filipino battleship, laid down 1937

Displacement:
41,496 t light; 44,503 t standard; 47,935 t normal; 50,681 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
722.85 ft / 721.00 ft x 118.00 ft x 34.00 ft (normal load)
220.33 m / 219.76 m x 35.97 m x 10.36 m

Armament:
17 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (5 mounts), 1,308.20lbs / 593.39kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread, 8 raised guns
12 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (4x3 guns), 120.00lbs / 54.43kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (8x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
15 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (5x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
8 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 24,201 lbs / 10,977 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 401.25 ft / 122.30 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 86 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.95" / 75 mm 401.25 ft / 122.30 m 31.82 ft / 9.70 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.1" / 410 mm 6.10" / 155 mm 15.0" / 380 mm
2nd: 6.10" / 155 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 5.12" / 130 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.12" / 130 mm, Conning tower: 2.56" / 65 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 115,425 shp / 86,107 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 11,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 6,178 tons)

Complement:
1,619 - 2,105

Cost:
£24.168 million / $96.671 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,013 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 16,599 tons, 34.6 %
- Belts: 3,596 tons, 7.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,395 tons, 2.9 %
- Armament: 5,752 tons, 12.0 %
- Armour Deck: 5,782 tons, 12.1 %
- Conning Tower: 73 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 3,199 tons, 6.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,536 tons, 38.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,439 tons, 13.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
50,718 lbs / 23,005 Kg = 38.8 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 8.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 18.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.580
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.85 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.20 ft / 6.46 m
- Forecastle (22 %): 21.20 ft / 6.46 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.20 ft / 6.46 m
- Quarterdeck (22 %): 21.20 ft / 6.46 m
- Stern: 21.20 ft / 6.46 m
- Average freeboard: 21.20 ft / 6.46 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.3 %
Waterplane Area: 61,070 Square feet or 5,674 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 227 lbs/sq ft or 1,110 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.39
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

On 45,000t its easy to design a much, much better ship. Why 17 guns? Makes no sense when you can have 10x380mm.

The idea was, the 350mm is already in service (on BB32, Quezon) and this allowed commonality. Plus I've always liked Agincourt.

Quoted

when you can have 10x380mm.

Or 10 x 410mm... ^_^

It just doesn't make much sense to me. Using the historical Italian 381mm/50 guns, I can punch through your belt armour at ~27.000yds and that's if the Philipines used best-in-the-world British face-hardened armour. If the Philipines was using Japanese armour, I could punch a hole through at 33.000yds!

Davao vs. Lepanto (nearly 20years earilier) is fairly close, but when Davao has smaller guns, and only 1 more, armour and speed are about the same, I'd give the edge to Lepanto. And she is 5.000t smaller.

Why the 25mm AA guns?
They may be adequate at this point in time.
The Japanese used these in WW-2 and they proved to lack the stopping power or the reach of the heavy 40mm or 37mm used elsewhere.
Is there a plan to upgrade the AA battery to a heavier caliber later?
I noticed other navies are using up to 57mm AA guns in their rapid fire AA battery.

Quoted

Why the 25mm AA guns?
...
The Japanese used these in WW-2 and they proved to lack the stopping power or the reach of the heavy 40mm or 37mm used elsewhere.

Well, that's true. But anticipating that in the design would be using hindsight... I do have a 37mm in the cards for this timeframe - as well as the ubiquitous 40mm Bofors - so I'll see about that.

P.S. It should be noted that I do not intend to actually build this version of Davao. The decision not to was what allowed me to "leak" it. ^_^

Quoted

Quoted

when you can have 10x380mm.

Or 10 x 410mm... ^_^

Heheh I see you still remember my proposal, huh? .

I've got a 12x410mm version and a 9x410mm version designed for those dates. Both equally armored, second much, much faster than first one

Would you believe 8x432mm?

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro
Would you believe 8x432mm?

I can believe 8x435mm ...47500t standard, LOTS of armor, and 29knots top speed...because I have a design of that kind ready for 1936

and in fact the 8x410mm I have designed as alternative to the 9x410mm posted avobe has almost the same ammount of armor (secret but massive ) on a similar tonnage but with 31 knots top speed...

Have lots of different versions ready to counter what is appearing on those dates...all share one common thing: MASSIVE ammounts of armor and no ship under 27knots top speed

Would you believe on 41,634 tons standard (44,975 tons normal) at 28 knots? And only armored to deal with treaty battleships 15 inch guns....and only 720 feet long?

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro
Would you believe on 41,634 tons standard (44,975 tons normal) at 28 knots? And only armored to deal with treaty battleships 15 inch guns....and only 720 feet long?

If I tune down the armor of the avobe-mentioned ship to protection against 15'' guns only probably I'd come with something similar...

Gonna try it right now, will post details later...