WesWorld

Folks:

At present, India has eleven light cruisers in service:

-4 Kolkata class, with 8 x 10.5 cm and 28 knots

-5 Columbo class, with 7 x 15 cm and 29 knots

-2 Trincomalee class, with 9 x 15 cm and 31.5 knots

I have no serious intention of upgrading the Kolkatas. They're small, slow, and coal-fired. The oldest two are going to be replaced by Agra-class ships in 1927, the other two will take on local commands in the quiet sectors of India. Those ones might get a refit.

The Columbo class, however, needs some updating, as they'll be around for a little while. They're decently armed and protected, and oil-fired, though on the slow side. My thinking at this time is that they will take on the BB escort role, leaving the faster Trincomalees as carrier escorts, and the Agras (and my three CAs) to form independent squadrons.

I see two options for the Columbos: refit and rebuild. My question to you is, which would you do? Bear in mind that the Akbar class has a floatplane, and a top speed of 28 kts.

Refit: ~1100 t and 4 months per ship

-Replace 2x1 10.5 cm AA with 2x2 10.5 cm
-Replace 2x2 45 cm TT with 2x4 55 cm TT
-Possibly add a floatplane and catapult

Rebuild: ~2200 t and 7 months per ship

-As above, plus:
-Replace the two "wing" 15 cm guns with additional twin 10.5 cm guns
-Delete the midships 15 cm single and put the floatplane there
-Replace foremost and aft-most 15 cm singles with twins, leaving a final main armament of 2x2 and 2x1 shielded 15 cm mounts
-Replace and upgrade machinery, allowing 30.2 kts

Thoughts?

I'd go to see what I have, what my factories will produce during the time the refit/rebuild will happen, what the maximum is that my factories can produce, and what can be spared for those five ships. You're looking at spending either 5,500 tons on the five ships or 11,000 tons. I would give it a try to get that rebuild though, make those ships slightly better than the way they are now.

Go for that refit option instead. They are too small to do anything really useful with them. I wouldn't add that catapult and floatplane though, it'll take up too much space. Instead carry more boats for when Akbar gets sunk

Quoted

Instead carry more boats for when Akbar gets sunk

Yes, perhaps that is the better option. No need to make it faster since you might end up too far away from the Akbar to pick up survivors. :-)
Looks like I did indeed forget one thing in that small list: "Look if it will actually fit on your ship."

Maybe I shouldn't even refit them, then. Just build a hospital ship instead?

Probably I´m the only one to think so but I wouldn´t scrap even one of those hulls. It´s a matter of mathematics and personal preferences...............

The KOLKATAs are nearly perfect for a rebuild - especially because they are coal fired. Switching them to oil burners will grant you more weight savings than anything else. Just compare your KOLKATAs to my CL08-type CLs (NAMPULA-class) and what they look like now that I have rebuild them. And they were even smaller than your ships originally. The RSANs CL10-class will not be rebuild most likely as they are already oil burners and there is not that much hull strength to gain...

Well, one might indeed question the value of such modifications but I rate the NAMPULAs as good enough to take on the vast majority of CLs around in WesWorld these days. Well, at least those smaller than 6000kts and older than 4 years. You KOLKATAs could be rebuild along similar lines. You just have to ask yourself if such a vessel would have a place in your navy. It´s a matter of doctrine and detachment.

Modifications to the COLUMBOs have to be calculated carefully. I´m not sure how much hs can be gained by using a modern machinery. They aren´t exactly old so there probably is very little to gain. So perhaps a refit might do. Replace the centerline gun aft with a catapult and give her a somewhat useful AA suit. I wouldn´t even replace the wing guns. Keep them.

However, if you want something more dramatically go for the cat, replace the wing guns by 10,5cm twin AAs, replace the single 15cm shields with doubles and try to squeeze more out of her machinery for another knot of speed. But then keep in mind the costs. It might be worth waiting another 5 years and try a rebuild when more advanced technology is available.

Just my thoughts of course...

HoOmAn

One thing to keep in mind is that, since Columbo's guns are not in barbettes, you can replace any/all of them in a refit, the rebuild would only be needed for re-engining.

I agree that as many hulls as possible should be kept. Remember, N², quanity beats quality. (It served the VVS for forty years...) The Kolkatas would make fine convoy escorts, as well.

For "Plan K", I'd rebuild to oil firing. Replace the fore/aft 105mm guns with 150s. Replace the wing 105s with the modern AA model. The 88s can go (perhaps the Filipinos could provide 57mm replacments? ). Upgrade the torpedo tubes to 550mm.

For "Plan C", I second Hooman's "dramatic" motion. And remember you don't have to do anything to them until at least 1932...

Quoted

go for the cat

Missing your cat? Check under my tires.

Quoted

Missing your cat? Check under my tires.

*Presses button to catapult the tires*

Recall my Pallada class reconstruction: 4500 tons of materials and a year in a dock produced a 9x6" 30 knot light cruiser. Hoo is absolutely right about the big weight savings you get from converting coal-firing to oil.

I had a look at the Kolkata last night. Here's a question for y'all: If I reduce the ship's draft, and increase the freeboard by the same amount, does that constitute a "change in dimension" that requires a reconstruction? Or is that do-able in a rebuild?

Interesting input on Kolkata. I've tinkered with 6 x 15 cm and 8 x 12.5 cm upgrades so perhaps the class isn't quite done yet.

It was never totally clarified, but IMHO if the draught+freeboard dimensions is kept the same, it can be done even in a refit, and definitly in a rebuild.

Here's how I'd handle "dimensional shifts":

- draught = can be changed in refit, rebuild or reconstruction, as long as draught+freeboard remains constant (i.e., increasing/decreasing displacement).

- freeboard = can be changed in rebuild (bow and fo'c'stle only) or reconstruction (anywhere)

- beam = can be changed in refit or reconstruction (addition of blisters)

- length (waterline) = can be changed in reconstruction only

- length (overall) = reshaping of bow, extending length O.A., is permissible in a rebuild as long as waterline length is not changed.

- BC = fixed

I would think that reducing the draft and increasing the freeboard as you said would not be a change of demention. I'm not sure of the ramifications inreguards to SS though....

Quoted

- BC = fixed

Not quite. I think that when one adds a piece of hull to increase length or add blisters to increase beam, the BC would change slightly although that change would barely be noticable. So for simplicity that should remain the same.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
I would think that reducing the draft and increasing the freeboard as you said would not be a change of demention. I'm not sure of the ramifications inreguards to SS though....

I've simmed Manila in a...somewhat modified state, with less displacement; the only SS ramification was an increase in seakeeping.

....for sure with a higher freeboard but what about stability?

Captain. Logic suggests that the stability should go down when the freeboard of a ship increases, unless one compensates that by adjusting the trim.

Quoted

...unless one compensates that by adjusting the trim.

Vhich is a Russian inwention.

I believe you are quite correct, Mr. Checkov. Historical statistics show that there was an increase in stability of the Russian warships build after the Ruso-Japan war. Logic suggests that they realized that... [blah blah blah]

<Six hours later>
... and it clearly shows and increase in the stability of the russian warships by a stagering 8.5432661467544 percent. This means that these newer russian warship could... [blah blah blah]

<Twelve more hours later>
... and so, looking back at all the data, I believe you are quite correct by assuming that this shift is a Russian invention. Of course there are other examples... [blah blah blah]

<Seven more hours later>
... and that I believe should be enough talk about Russian warships.


McCoy examining corpse of red-shirt wearing crewmember: "He's dead Jim. Looks like this green-blooded alien bored him to death with his story. Mr' Chekov doesn't look too good either so I will need to take him to sickbay for examinations."

Then have Mr. Scott set the trim, Spock.

Yes, Captain.

Mr. Sulu, set course and take us to full impulse as soon as Scotty sets the trim...

Good god man! I'm a doctor not a ship designer!