WesWorld

October 8th

A further 3 1915 type destroyers have been despatched to Mexico. It has still not been announced whether or not Mexico will purchase the final 3 ships of the class in the new year.

October 12th

The Navy has announced that the newly refurbished Battlecruiser Gota Lejon will go on a World tour in 1932. It is hoped that many nations will welcome the ship with open arms, and that the ship will perform well on the tour.

October 15th

Hot on the heals of the announced Trade deals announced with Argentina, the 3ft Gauge Lulea and Narvik railway has agreed to send several engineers to Argentina, as well as to build the engines required for the construction work

October 18th

Today the Commander of the Navy Admiral Tobias Hysén has, at the Riksdag voiced his concerns over the behaviour of the Kingdom of Italy with regards to their tonnage allocations under the Celito Treaty, he had the following to say.

"Gentlemen, our nation and all the other nations who have signed up to and have to the best of their abilities abibed by the Celito Treaty have been hoodwinked by the Kingdom of Italy. By this I mean that, with the completion of 2 recent cruiser to Carrier conversions they are now at least 7000tons over their treaty limits. Both of those ships are in the range of 4000-5000 tons, which added to Morosini at 25000t or more and the 2 Aquila's at around 21000t, leaves them with Carriers totalling 77000tons, 7000tons over their allocated 70000tons. I recomend that we call for strong action to be taken in this case, so that an example may be made to other nations who might consider doing the same"

The two Condottieri Class aircraft carriers have not been completed, they are in port for modifications following their refit.

Even so, they have been launched and the refits are only minor. In the Admirals eye's the ships are completed

Not in Japan's eyes. They are only completed once the modifications are done and the ships are back in service. Only then would Italy be in violation of the CT, no sooner, no later.

The Goverment of Atlantis has had a few surprize visits from several nations, who shall remain annonymous, reguarding this issue.

The Condottieri's to our understanding of the treaty cannot be sold to any nation due to their replacement date as cruisers. It has been argued that the same goes for Morosini due to her 1927 refit which voided the experimental clause.

Therefore it would seem reguardless of completion date it would appear that the Condottieri's will in fact push Italy over the treaty limits. This would be a serious and disappointing breach of a treaty that smaller nations have taken such pains to abide by in good faith.

We await the Italian governments clarification on this issue.

Sincerely Maren Xanthus, Atlantean Foreign Minister

I think you should have waited with the IC reply a bit and "wait for news." After all, he's not quite there yet with the news.
For all we know, one of the Italian carriers is now a permanent submerged carrier, and then it is a bit odd to have such a IC remark.

Just stating the Atlantean opinion so we know its merely acting as an administrating body and not a nation expressing its own self interest. Keep in mind its a responce to the Nordish news peice.

That news post would be extremely helpfull.

I agree.

(Hope it all works)

Here goes the first Italian carrier!

http://imageserver.gaming-networks.net/w…rrier_Wreck.jpg

... and there goes another one!

http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/images/hermessinks.jpg

... as well as the one he still has to build! Italy's pride and joy: RN Giuseppe Garibaldi!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41658…_reef_b_203.jpg

http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/oriskany_250350.jpg
:-)

...Hands off my Hermes!

and what's the first pic from?

Used her to sim the fate of an Italian carrier. Not sure about the first one, but I get the impression it is concept art for the game Far Cry.
Time to get that game.

So, what is the current status of these two Condottieri's on October 1, 1931? If they are launched wouldn't they be considered carriers and thus in violation of the treaty? But then that begs the question, when do they violate the treaty and why? Is it because Italy laid down another carrier and thus puts these two as the tonnage violators? Or was it because these are converted to carriers that the newly laid down carrier is the violator? (actually that might be a good British ship name...Violator).

Since Chile is not part of the treaty I don't keep up with what is and what isn't legal. Most of my rivals are also non-treaty nations (and Iberia is so hard to pin down at this time in terms of ships and tonnage), so I still don't quite pay attention to treaty details. What is the problem and when should it be reflected by the rest of the world? If memory serves, Jane's usually knew about ships under construction and even ships that were ordered long before they would have any concrete data on them (if they every got real data on them). So if a ship was to violate the treaty in such a blatent way, the world would know about it a year or more before the ship was finished. Thus unless Italy does something, or someone does something to Italy, these vessels will be in violation of the treaty as soon as the knowledge that the total tonnage limit has been exceeded? Or would it have to be when the ships are finished...at which time it really is too late to complain as they are done, money spent and all. Complaining earlier allows for corrections...where as later calls for punishments.

I just hope this won't be like the whole Nordmark War bit and the problem just festers for many sim years without any knowledge escaping even though it is important to some people and not to others. (Likely a bad example...just the extreme example).

Italy has exceeded the carrier tonnage limits since the completion of Aquila and Europa. Morosini comes in at 27,986 tons Standard, and the Aquilas are 22,813 tons Standard each. This comes to a total of 73,612 tons. I'm sure the 5% rule goes for aggregate tonnage as well as individual ship tonnage, and this is only a hair above that threshold. I guess that is why some dire fate is in store for Morosini... Talk about a tough luck ship!

The big question is.........


[SIZE=3]WHERE'S MANZO?[/SIZE]

Quoted

So, what is the current status of these two Condottieri's on October 1, 1931? If they are launched wouldn't they be considered carriers and thus in violation of the treaty? But then that begs the question, when do they violate the treaty and why? Is it because Italy laid down another carrier and thus puts these two as the tonnage violators? Or was it because these are converted to carriers that the newly laid down carrier is the violator? (actually that might be a good British ship name...Violator).

The two Condottieri's are in violation of the Treaty because Italy was already at, or exceeding (as AdmKuznetzov points out), her Treaty limits for carrier tonnage. Exactly when Italy becomes in violation of the Treaty is somewhat unclear: the Japanese position is that it is when they are commissioned, Admiral Haysen's position is when they are completed and can be used as carriers.

Yet another carrier to be laid down merely increases the violation of the Treaty.

I'm not a CT nation either and I'm perplexed.
Are the Condottieri's carriers or not? How can they be cruisers when it comes to disposing of them and carriers in tonnage terms? They can't be both!

It is clear either Italy feels the CT will soon break down, and they have planned for it, or they have deliberatley fluted the treaty. It should count from laying down not when complete. These carriers have been designed and planned, perhaps RA just forgot how much tonnage he had left? In any case another carrier seems illegal to me.

The replacement date mentioned by the Atlanteans is based on how they were built as cruisers in the mid 1920s, so they are not eligible for sale or scrapping under CT rules because they are not old enough. They are NOW carriers because they can land aircraft aboard.

October 30th

The once full Old Quay in Karlskrona Naval Dockyard, is much emptier today. Many of the old ships have been towed away either to drydocks elsewhere in the dockyard, or to other dockyards around the empire.
The Old ships are being disposed of in order to provide treaty tonnage for new Modern ships.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Exactly when Italy becomes in violation of the Treaty is somewhat unclear: the Japanese position is that it is when they are commissioned, Admiral Haysen's position is when they are completed and can be used as carriers.

Well, if the world community is siding with the Japanese view, I'm going to start building all sorts of treaty violating nasties, and just never get around to comissioning them. loophole~