WesWorld

Revised so that, if my per ship tonnage proposal is adopted, the Amazonas is a Class A cruiser and not a capital ship.

*****

MIBN Amazonas, Empire of Brazil Heavy Cruiser laid down 1939

Displacement:
15,030 t light; 15,786 t standard; 16,000 t normal; 16,171 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(680.11 ft / 666.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (23.86 / 24.04 ft)
(207.30 m / 203.00 m) x 22.56 m x (7.27 / 7.33 m)

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm 50.0 cal guns - 530.00lbs / 240.40kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts , 1939 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts , 1939 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts , 1939 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
32 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 150 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts , 1939 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,237 lbs / 5,237 kg
8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.80" / 147 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 10.78 ft / 3.29 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.00" / 25 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 10.78 ft / 3.29 m
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.00" / 25 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 10.78 ft / 3.29 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.95" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77,798 shp / 58,037 Kw = 30.50 kts
Range 1,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 385 tons

Complement:
710 - 924

Cost:
£7.882 million / $31.527 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,274 tons, 8.0 %
Armour: 4,655 tons, 29.1 %
- Belts: 1,383 tons, 8.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 181 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 1,196 tons, 7.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,854 tons, 11.6 %
- Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,105 tons, 13.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,435 tons, 46.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 970 tons, 6.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.3 %
- Hull below water: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24,886 lbs / 11,288 Kg = 49.8 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 3.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 17.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.89
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.476 / 0.478
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.79 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17.00 %, 30.26 ft / 9.22 m, 22.68 ft / 6.91 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 22.68 ft / 6.91 m, 22.68 ft / 6.91 m
- Aft deck: 16.00 %, 22.68 ft / 6.91 m, 22.68 ft / 6.91 m
- Quarter deck: 17.00 %, 22.68 ft / 6.91 m, 22.68 ft / 6.91 m
- Average freeboard: 23.20 ft / 7.07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.6 %
Waterplane Area: 33,411 Square feet or 3,104 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 145 lbs/sq ft or 708 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

A range of 1,500nm at 12kn? So she´s used for harbor defence only?

I doubt a 90mm caliber secondary battery is suffice for ship her size but I may be wrong.

Thanks for catching that, Hoo. And the secondary battery is entirely anti-air, it's not meant for anti-ship work. Actually, if you can improve upon this design and keep it under the 16,000 mark, feel free.

*****

MIBN Amazonas, Empire of Brazil Heavy Cruiser laid down 1939

Displacement:
14,442 t light; 15,198 t standard; 16,000 t normal; 16,642 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(678.44 ft / 666.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (23.86 / 24.53 ft)
(206.79 m / 203.00 m) x 22.56 m x (7.27 / 7.48 m)

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm 50.0 cal guns - 530.00lbs / 240.40kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts , 1939 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts , 1939 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts , 1939 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
32 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 150 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts , 1939 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,237 lbs / 5,237 kg
8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.75" / 121 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 10.78 ft / 3.29 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.00" / 25 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 10.78 ft / 3.29 m
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.00" / 25 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 10.78 ft / 3.29 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.95" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77,798 shp / 58,037 Kw = 30.50 kts
Range 8,100nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,444 tons

Complement:
710 - 924

Cost:
£7.762 million / $31.048 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,274 tons, 8.0 %
Armour: 4,361 tons, 27.3 %
- Belts: 1,169 tons, 7.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 181 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 1,115 tons, 7.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,854 tons, 11.6 %
- Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,105 tons, 13.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,140 tons, 44.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,558 tons, 9.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.3 %
- Hull below water: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,270 lbs / 10,555 Kg = 46.5 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 17.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.476 / 0.482
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.79 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17.00 %, 26.68 ft / 8.13 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Aft deck: 16.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarter deck: 17.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 20.45 ft / 6.23 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.2 %
Waterplane Area: 33,411 Square feet or 3,104 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 703 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.32
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Stability of 1.0? Nick the paint and she'll capsize...

Like I said, if you can improve on it do so.

Well, I went back and changed the guns to 9 inches. Gave me the extra composite strength I needed to improve the freeboard and get a good ship.

*****

MIBN Amazonas, Empire of Brazil Heavy Cruiser laid down 1939

Displacement:
14,539 t light; 15,191 t standard; 15,992 t normal; 16,634 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(679.70 ft / 666.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (23.86 / 24.53 ft)
(207.17 m / 203.00 m) x 22.56 m x (7.27 / 7.48 m)

Armament:
9 - 9.00" / 229 mm 50.0 cal guns - 390.00lbs / 176.90kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts , 1939 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts , 1939 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts , 1939 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
32 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 150 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts , 1939 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,977 lbs / 3,977 kg
8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.75" / 197 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 10.78 ft / 3.29 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.00" / 25 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 10.78 ft / 3.29 m
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.00" / 25 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 10.78 ft / 3.29 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.75" / 197 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.95" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77,768 shp / 58,015 Kw = 30.50 kts
Range 8,100nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,443 tons

Complement:
710 - 924

Cost:
£7.004 million / $28.014 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 959 tons, 6.0 %
Armour: 4,911 tons, 30.7 %
- Belts: 1,779 tons, 11.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 181 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 1,056 tons, 6.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,854 tons, 11.6 %
- Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,104 tons, 13.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,848 tons, 42.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,453 tons, 9.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.3 %
- Hull below water: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,143 lbs / 12,312 Kg = 74.5 x 9.0 " / 229 mm shells or 4.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 17.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.476 / 0.482
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.79 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17.00 %, 29.38 ft / 8.96 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Aft deck: 16.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarter deck: 17.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Average freeboard: 22.50 ft / 6.86 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 175.1 %
Waterplane Area: 33,404 Square feet or 3,103 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 658 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.45
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Look at what Mexico is building. She is lighter, faster, more heavily armored, and has same armament.

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…558&sid=&page=2

Updated after I noticed that I had mistake the upper belt armour for the deck armour yet again. And Desert, the Amazonas and Villa are quite different ships meant for different roles. The Amazonas isn't meant as an El Cid killer, that's what the Recife class is for. The Amazonas is meant as a heavy cruiser meant to be a flagship for cruiser squadrons and will be used to go after other cruisers.

*****

MIBN Amazonas, Empire of Brazil Heavy Cruiser laid down 1939

Displacement:
14,539 t light; 15,191 t standard; 15,992 t normal; 16,634 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(679.70 ft / 666.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (23.86 / 24.53 ft)
(207.17 m / 203.00 m) x 22.56 m x (7.27 / 7.48 m)

Armament:
9 - 9.00" / 229 mm 50.0 cal guns - 390.00lbs / 176.90kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts , 1939 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts , 1939 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts , 1939 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
32 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 150 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts , 1939 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides amidships
16 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,977 lbs / 3,977 kg
8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.60" / 218 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 10.78 ft / 3.29 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.00" / 25 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 10.78 ft / 3.29 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.75" / 197 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.95" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77,768 shp / 58,015 Kw = 30.50 kts
Range 8,100nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,443 tons

Complement:
710 - 924

Cost:
£7.004 million / $28.014 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 959 tons, 6.0 %
Armour: 4,880 tons, 30.5 %
- Belts: 1,749 tons, 10.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 181 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 1,056 tons, 6.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,854 tons, 11.6 %
- Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,104 tons, 13.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,879 tons, 43.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,453 tons, 9.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.3 %
- Hull below water: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,275 lbs / 12,372 Kg = 74.8 x 9.0 " / 229 mm shells or 4.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 17.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.476 / 0.482
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.79 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17.00 %, 29.38 ft / 8.96 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Aft deck: 16.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarter deck: 17.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Average freeboard: 22.50 ft / 6.86 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 175.1 %
Waterplane Area: 33,404 Square feet or 3,103 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 661 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.46
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I think a ship her size and armament should have a higher BC and at least in SSv2 she´d surely benefit from it too....

Just a thought.

Fyrwulf,

your design´s TB only has a high of ~3,3m which is not enough. A TB should cover the ships hull from the bottom to the armored deck which I assume to be at least on sea level.

So here´s my shot, using SSv2 which I´m used to.

I used a smaller hull with a higher BC and got a smaller, less expensive ship with a full high TB - even though I wouldn´t use it at all on a hull of less than 14000ts standard.

Amazonas, laid down 1939

Displacement:
13.228 t light; 13.865 t standard; 14.620 t normal; 15.224 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
646,56 ft / 633,20 ft x 68,90 ft x 21,33 ft (normal load)
197,07 m / 193,00 m x 21,00 m x 6,50 m

Armament:
9 - 9,02" / 229 mm guns (3x3 guns), 390,00lbs / 176,90kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 3,54" / 90,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 25,00lbs / 11,34kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 1939 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
32 - 0,54" / 13,7 mm guns (16x2 guns), 0,08lbs / 0,04kg shells, 1939 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3.977 lbs / 1.804 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8,58" / 218 mm 426,51 ft / 130,00 m 10,66 ft / 3,25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 104% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
0,98" / 25 mm 426,51 ft / 130,00 m 21,33 ft / 6,50 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7,76" / 197 mm 5,98" / 152 mm 7,99" / 203 mm
2nd: 2,95" / 75 mm 1,97" / 50 mm 2,95" / 75 mm

- Armour deck: 2,95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 2,95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77.466 shp / 57.790 Kw = 30,50 kts
Range 8.100nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1.359 tons

Complement:
664 - 864

Cost:
£6,665 million / $26,659 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 463 tons, 3,2%
Armour: 4.684 tons, 32,0%
- Belts: 1.631 tons, 11,2%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 331 tons, 2,3%
- Armament: 952 tons, 6,5%
- Armour Deck: 1.731 tons, 11,8%
- Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0,3%
Machinery: 2.096 tons, 14,3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.785 tons, 39,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.392 tons, 9,5%
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22.212 lbs / 10.075 Kg = 60,6 x 9,0 " / 229 mm shells or 3,5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
Metacentric height 3,5 ft / 1,1 m
Roll period: 15,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,19 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28,74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27,69 ft / 8,44 m
- Forecastle (20%): 18,11 ft / 5,52 m
- Mid (50%): 18,11 ft / 5,52 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 18,11 ft / 5,52 m
- Stern: 18,11 ft / 5,52 m
- Average freeboard: 18,88 ft / 5,75 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103,4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143,9%
Waterplane Area: 31.697 Square feet or 2.945 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 617 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,98
- Longitudinal: 1,10
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Thanks, Hoo. I'll see what I can do with it in SS3.

Hoo, I tried playing around with your version and I couldn't get it to be a good gun platform and it had quite poor performance in heavy weather. However, I did use quite a things you did on yours to improve mine, so thank you.

*****

MIBN Amazonas, Empire of Brazil Heavy Cruiser laid down 1939

Displacement:
14,539 t light; 15,191 t standard; 15,992 t normal; 16,634 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(679.70 ft / 666.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (23.86 / 24.53 ft)
(207.17 m / 203.00 m) x 22.56 m x (7.27 / 7.48 m)

Armament:
9 - 9.00" / 229 mm 50.0 cal guns - 390.00lbs / 176.90kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts , 1939 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts , 1939 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts , 1939 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
32 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 150 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts , 1939 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides amidships
16 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,977 lbs / 3,977 kg
8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.75" / 197 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 10.78 ft / 3.29 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.00" / 25 mm 453.12 ft / 138.11 m 23.86 ft / 7.27 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.75" / 197 mm 5.75" / 146 mm 7.75" / 197 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.95" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77,768 shp / 58,015 Kw = 30.50 kts
Range 8,100nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,443 tons

Complement:
710 - 924

Cost:
£7.004 million / $28.014 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 959 tons, 6.0 %
Armour: 4,896 tons, 30.6 %
- Belts: 1,576 tons, 9.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 400 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 1,025 tons, 6.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,854 tons, 11.6 %
- Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,104 tons, 13.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,863 tons, 42.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,453 tons, 9.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.3 %
- Hull below water: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,288 lbs / 12,378 Kg = 74.9 x 9.0 " / 229 mm shells or 4.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.476 / 0.482
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.79 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17.00 %, 29.38 ft / 8.96 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Aft deck: 16.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarter deck: 17.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Average freeboard: 22.50 ft / 6.86 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 175.1 %
Waterplane Area: 33,404 Square feet or 3,103 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 659 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.46
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I still don't like her. Villa can do everything she can and do it better.

Ditch the Torpedo Bulkhead, useless on a ship her size, it just takes up space and weight.

The armor suite is quite heavy, BC style. remove some of it.

Anti-ship armament is too light. Increase it.

Speed is too low, increase it (to Recife's 31.75kts?)

Do you need such a heavy AA armament? Im pretty sure she can survive with less.

I'm suggesting something like this:

Export Cruiser, Mexico Heavy Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
13,682 t light; 14,411 t standard; 15,971 t normal; 17,218 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
685.75 ft / 650.00 ft x 65.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
209.02 m / 198.12 m x 19.81 m x 8.23 m

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (3x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns (16x2 guns), 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,807 lbs / 2,180 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 370.00 ft / 112.78 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 91,674 shp / 68,389 Kw = 31.75 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,808 tons

Complement:
709 - 923

Cost:
£6.863 million / $27.453 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 601 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 3,670 tons, 23.0 %
- Belts: 1,100 tons, 6.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 919 tons, 5.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,610 tons, 10.1 %
- Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,604 tons, 16.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,686 tons, 41.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,289 tons, 14.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20,746 lbs / 9,410 Kg = 41.5 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.93
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.490
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.13 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 50.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Mid (40 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 22.63 ft / 6.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.3 %
Waterplane Area: 29,004 Square feet or 2,695 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 663 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.82
- Overall: 1.02
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
I still don't like her. Villa can do everything she can and do it better.

So? Villa is a Mexican ship, not a Brazilian one. Different roles, different design goals.

What is the role of Amazonas? If its strictly cruiser killing shes fine, but after you run out of cruisers to kill what then?

CV escort? I'd say a wee bit more speed would be usefull to outpace the CV's and manuever. I'd also agree on the TB, shes still a wee bit small for that sort of protection which takes up quite a bit of space.
Her speed already makes torpedo attack by subs difficult, leaving aircraft as the primary torpedo threat for which Amazonas has a formidable AA defence.

Removing the TB would also allow you to retain the 10" guns which make for a better punch vs. heavy cruisers than the 9" and can inflict reasonable damage on larger Battlecruisers that would make this ship run.

In short I'd drop the TB and add more speed.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
What is the role of Amazonas? If its strictly cruiser killing shes fine, but after you run out of cruisers to kill what then?

Yes, she's a cruiser killer and I guess you could say she's a cruiser leader as well. I probably won't remove the bulkheads. if you were talking about a bulge or something then I'd be inclined to agree that it was extraneous, but IMO it's folly to rely on just speed for torpedo protection since some torpedo attacks are just unavoidable.

(She looks like a Rohirrim built Heavy Cruiser with those 9 inch guns)

Her armor is a little light in you intend to take on the up and coming large cruiser types or the Iberian armored cruisers. I've been keeping my armor around 8.5" and 4 inches of deck armor to give my cruisers at least a small area they can be safe while still being able to hurt their designed opponent (El Cid).

However, Brazil would be designing against South Africa and Argentina...perhaps Iberia and Atlantis, in local waters. So the requirements are different than Chile's.

No, she's not to deal with new Large Cruiser types, that's what the Rios are for. She's designed to kill lots of light cruisers in short order or to deal with a couple of treaty heavy cruisers.

And actually, South Africa is the only nation that really concerns Brazil. Atlantis and Argentina are both on fairly friendly terms, as far as I can tell, while Iberia is simply neutral.

True, Brazil would (or should) be building to counter Atlantean, Iberian and Argentinian ships as well. They may be neutral or freindly nations but still tend to set certain benchmarks in the region. To some extent British, French and Dutch designs would be scrutinized as well seeing as they have territory's in the region.

As for TB, sure the torpedo threats always there but the problem is you only have so much room in the hull for engines, barbettes ect. The upside is the TB would provide additional protection from torpedo attacks from enemy CL's.

Keep in mind the Admiral Hipper/Prinz Eugen class CA's displaced about the same tonnage and lacked TB's. Yes Blucher sucumbed to just 2 torps but in constrained waters (550m wide narrows) and after an extensive battering from shore batteries.

In the end its always your choice in reguards to TB, no question.